Self, Consciousness - how brain damages provide insights

All,

I present to you Mr. V.S. Ramachandran, a neuroscientist at UCSD's Center for Brain and Cognition. I highly recommend:

"Phantoms In The Brain" - 2 Episode BBC series. Available on Youtube.
"Neurology and the Passion for Art" - Also, available on Youtube.

For those bent on psychology and psychoanalysis, check this out: The Uniqueness of the Human Brain.

I read one of his books, I think Phantoms in the Brain. He has an annoying certainty, with his opinions forming a kind of closed universe. An interesting universe, and worth exploring, nonetheless.

You got the name correct. I, too, read that book almost 8 years back. Started digging about him recently and found these videos. It's fascinating to see the connections between synesthesia and propensity to use metaphors, empathy neurons (dalai lama neurons!) and self awareness.

Here is an excerpt from his essay titled, "THE NEUROLOGY OF SELF-AWARENESS"

How does all this lead to self awareness? I suggest that self awareness is simply using mirror neurons for "looking at myself as if someone else is look at me" (the word "me" encompassing some of my brain processes, as well). The mirror neuron mechanism - the same algorithm - that originally evolved to help you adopt another's point of view was turned inward to look at your own self. This, in essence, is the basis of things like "introspection".

It may not be coincidental that we use phrases like "self conscious" when you really mean that you are conscious of others being conscious of you. Or say "I am reflecting" when you mean you are aware of yourself thinking. In other words the ability to turn inward to introspect or reflect may be a sort of metaphorical extension of the mirror neurons ability to read others minds. It is often tacitly assumed that the uniquely human ability to construct a "theory of other minds" or "TOM" (seeing the world from the others point of view; "mind reading", figuring out what someone is up to, etc.) must come after an already pre-existing sense of self.

I am arguing that the exact opposite is true; the TOM evolved first in response to social needs and then later, as an unexpected bonus, came the ability to introspect on your own thoughts and intentions. I claim no great originality for these ideas; they are part of the current zeitgeist. Any novelty derives from the manner in which I shall marshall the evidence from physiology and from our own work in neurology.

Note that I am not arguing that mirror neurons are sufficient for the emergence of self; only that they must have played a pivotal role. (Otherwise monkeys would have self awareness and they don't). They may have to reach a certain critical level of sophistication that allowed them to build on earlier functions (TOM) and become linked to certain other brain circuits, especially the Wernickes ("language comprehension") area and parts of the frontal lobes.

I watched most of that video. The impression I get from is that there are an awful lot of very good questions and issues it raises about the Brahma Kumaris' simplicist take on consciousness and self-identity.

I was particularly interested by his take, as an intelligent and educated India, on deception and self-deception in one of the other videos from the link above. He offers an evolutionary perspective on it, i.e. how we learned to lie and deceive, why we do it, how we can even be entirely unaware that we are doing it etc, which still works even if you don't believe we evolved from monkeys. Or if you are like me and believe that we have still NOT evolved from being monkeys.

You have stated you are from an Indian background. I think Westerners need to take a crash course in what comprises "Indian Truth", "Indian Facts" or "Indian Honesty". I do not mean to disrespect India or Indians. I know that there are many very fine and intelligent Indians ... dedicated to objectivity and bearing integrity. Perhaps I need to refine just which caste, age or region I am talking about, e.g. you could not blame "all Africans" on the basis of Yoruba (Nigerian) 415 fraudsters.

But there is something about the underlying fear of absolute poverty, the lack of emperical education and the pluralistic/psychedelic nature of Hinduism that cook up a specific kind of ability to deceive the self and others ... in order to survive perhaps? More of a sign post than a finished conclusion I am afraid.

The impression I get from you, decanni, is that you are very clever to have seen the connections between what he is talking about and what the BKs are teaching ... and my fear would be that such intelligence is wasted on this forum. But please, please make your intelligent points and explain to us what these relevances are.

We could do with more practical intelligence on board here to balance the more 'tabloid influences' such as my own.