Well, what Baba says about those families which have collapsed after one of the family member followed them wholeheartedly. If God is there(where you think) in manifested form, there should not be even a single case like that. And if it happens, he should put everything right with his mighty power. Only lectures exists, that's all. Its your karma & inner beauty which gives you peace today, not Baba.
Agree with you that its your karma & inner beauty which gives you peace today, not Baba. What Baba does is gives knowledge about karmas and knowledge to empower ourself to do the same.
"Baba also keeps telling that 'dusro ki duaon se hi tum anand ke jhule mai jhuloge' (You will feel true happiness by blessings of others)."
This statement itself violates Law of Karma. By others blessing can you bind merit karmas & gets its effect in next life? One blesses you on basis of your external acts, how could it bring happiness? You may act good outwardly but if intentions are wrong, it is going to bring sufferings whether blesses you or curses you. It will not work in adhyatm.
Baba doesn't tell us to be good outside only, but always says that 'sab ke prati subh bhawna aur shubh kamna rakho'. Baba inspires to have good intentions for all.
"Again you are right, however its more about intention than words."
And when words are not integrated with intentions, it is ashuddhyoga.
When words are different from intention it may be either to help or to deceive. In my opinion the former is good but latter is bad.
"Even Krishna inspired Arjuna to do the violence. "
Really, do you think so?
Whole yudh (war) was a consequence of karma of million of soldier. Even if Arjuna would have left that place, still war would have occured. And Lord Krishna saw all that within his knowledge that no matter how much Arjun pushes himself out of war, he will fight & will become a medium to cause death of lacs of soldiers. What Lord Krishna did was to grace Arjuna with self realization so that not even a single karma binds him during the war. That was also the punyanubandhi karma of Arjuna that he got self realization at that point. His intentios were pure & did not wanted to kill even a single person. It is not a common science which you are trying to interpret. For that first thing needed is Tattvagyan, get that & your work will be done.
This all is what we all have been taught since childhood. Right? Or is it your self realization?
It is not a common science which you are trying to interpret. For that first thing needed is Tattvagyan, get that & your work will be done.
I disagree. As per my understanding, Tattvagyan is not required to interpret karmic theory. Its about intentions only. If you think that you have done some work, you will get the result of that karma. If you think that you have not done some work. You are not bound to the result. If a man kills another in personal rage his suffering would be higher than a soldier killing opposition soldier keeping in mind that it is his duty/role. If you cause someone to die without knowing or intending it, you will not be bound to the result of this karma.
"Sometimes words do not reflect the original intention."
That is remark of a weak person whose words and intentions flow in different ways.
I disagree.
"Shiv Baba helps even non-BKs, they are also his child."
Soul is an eternal element. It neither has Father nor anything else. The child Father relation is there for relative self which exists with full proof.
If you are rejecting the concept of God Father or Param Pita, I disagree with your belief. Its more contextual than technical.
"she corrected me very firmly that 'others' are also children of Baba."
If in spirituality, there is mine, yours, ours, others,etc know it is a dharm not adhyatm.
If I want to say that people who like mango, stand in one row and others make another row. How should I say this sentence without using word 'others'?
Sometime we should take plain English sentence as English sentence only.
" Baba loves all, no matter what part one is playing in the drama."
Sometimes BKs say Baba does not love those who do not remember him & sometimes this whole new thing comes. Dude, reach a unique conclusion first.
Unique conclusion is: Baba loves all but only those who remember him with silent mind can feel that love.
Arvind -"The meaning of Dushashan is 'Du-Shashan : One.... "
Earlier people were named with their attributes that they bear from right from birth as in this case. It was a complete vidya which used to consider time,place of birth, planetory motions, phase of sun & moon,etc. Each alphabet of name was the outcome of the precise calculations. It was not like that one can choose any name. Parents ofcourse would never name their child in that way. But see today, people with name 'suryaprakash' or 'mahendra' may also lead to downfall of whole family & bring shame.
I am not convinced. I still believe that Mahabharat was a story and characters were named as per their roles.
Also in Gita, God said that I am ajanma but Krishna took birth in Mahabharat.
"Gandhari had total 100 sons, so at the time of birth of last son, Duryodhan should have been grand Father or great grand Father."
Do you know the life span of people during Satyug, Dwapar & Treta. It is more than thousands of years.
I don't buy this point. Even the author of Mahabharat has not tried to make such impression anywhere. Search for the age of Sri Krishna and Bhishma in google and you will get the answer.
Here is another reason why I can never agree that age was more than thousand years during Mahabharat. Let's assume for a moment that average age of man during Mahabharat is 1000 years and age to marry is 25 years. That way total 1000/25 = 40 generations should be living together. Which has never been mentioned in the Mahabharat for any dynasty. Hence age was definitely not 1000 years.
"To me it looks like some enlightened yogi wanted to spread of teachings so he weaved a great story around that. Without Mahabharat, no body would have known about Gita. "
Well, good luck with that. Your belief on religion has already started to end. But SAVE it as that is the only last hope.
Self realization should always supercede beliefs otherwise we won't be able to move forward and sometimes we may get trapped in chinese whisper.
Bible, Quran, Gita, Guru Granth etc are most noble scriptures which are based on truth rather that history & their geography. It may be myth or story or a fiction for you but not for Indians
Lets not be prejudice here and think rationally. It has to be either myth for all or truth for all.
(well even Indians have started questioning them as a result of fraud done by these organizations)
Are you suggesting that no one should question the Mahabharat and believe it blindly?
I believe in Theory & Laws of Karma which are repeatedly revised by real Enlightened beings.
"When Krishna and Arjuna do it, it is consequence of karma, for all others [Any talk of violence & destruction are against such pure intent.]"
No, the law applies equally to everyone. What Krishna Bhagwan told Arjun is that 'event(war) will happen definitely & Arjun will have to fight as a result of his karma'. Things change completely for Arjun after Lord Krishna gave him Atma Darshan or Self realization. When he got self realization, he attained 'Akarm dasha'. After that karma are discharged only, no new karma is bound. If he kills millions, no new paap karmas are bound or if he donates luxury to millions, no punya karmas are bound.
Again we are saying what we have been taught.
As per my understanding Atma Darshan is not required to do karma which bound us. We do not get bound to karma for each and every thing we do from morning till evening. Karmic theory is applicable for all, people with self realization and others. It all depends on what was the intention for doing the karma.
We cannot apply this theory on us before self realization. First, state of non doership has to be attained & the vision that no one is doer has to be established. Only then this can be followed and yes it comes only after self realization. I
I again disagree.
arvind: "result of karma can be avoided by knowledge of 'akarm daksha'."
No, merely knowledge about akarm dasha cannot stop binding of karma. One has to attain that state & get established in it. Rarely person gets it on his own (he is called Swayam Buddha). Most seekers get it with the grace of Gyani Purush.
In BK, by observing minute-2 things in Murli I have full confidence that Shiv Baba is a super expert of Akarm Daksha while Brahma Baba also attained it. Shiv Baba never takes credit of anything. He always says its my role to come at this time etc etc. Brahma Baba also detached himself completely from the actions by saying that the Yagya is of Shiv Baba, there is nothing mine.
If you want you may disagree but I am fully convinced that my understanding of su-karm, a-karm and vi-karm is absolutely correct. Yes attaining the state is little far but again I know I am on right path. Baba also says that karmatit awastha pichadi me aayegi fir tumhe koi chinta nahi hogi.