Sex, Sexuality and Relationships within the BKWSU or PBKs

What interesting lines of thoughts. I am all with Jan and can see where she is coming from. The boys here add a new dimension to our female thinking. Women from Venus, men from Mars thing. Women are more emotive, men more physical.

Mr Green, all the women on this forum are georgeous!

I think there are many aspects to what has been pointed out here. To maintain a healthy, balanced life unless we then totally withdraw from any other human, we need to touch and express ourselves. We need to be touched. We need to have a closeness and connection with others. We are humans, no matter how much we strive ourselves not to be.

I found the most amazing teaching was that souls are impure. I was astounded to hear this. I am sorry, i cannot disagree more. My beliefs say when we die we then go into our pure form ... i.e. the soul. We are part of God, God is part of us, therefore if we were impure then God would become impure by being part of us. Souls are already pure, don't need to 'cure' them, just moderate our behaviours as humans. So how to relate this back to touch and sex? We are humans. We should strive to be the best we can, to grow spiritually, mentally, emotionally. This goes back to what I originally said about a good balance between all of our different aspects.

To deny totally one aspect of our being cannot be anything but detrimental to our health (mentaly, emotional, physical ) We have a responsibility to look after our bodies, minds and spirits. To condem one is to then make another aspect take up that slack and unless you are a hermit it is going to adversely affect others around you. Fine if you do live on a mountain top, do not have to earn a living and do not have to have anything to do with other humans, it can work nicely for you. If this is not your situation, then in order to make the best of ourselves we have to blend all of our needs and responsibilities into a balanced whole, only then can we love others and give ourselves to them. How can you love others if you are detached and withdrawn, and think you are elite? It becomes a token offering and then ceases to become love.

In my mind, to remove yourself from others (unless you are one of the very, very, very few people that are truely meant for this path and developed spiritually to that extent) because you have fear and guilt and want to ride on a Chariot and become a king is a selfish act. Only love involved is self love. Not the unconditional type. These are my ramblings and opinions only. We all agree, a healthy bond with others and a healthy sex life is very beneficial to us physically, mentally and emotionally. Personally, I think the problems arise is when extremist values are enforced on individuals or groups that cannot possible incorporate them into their situations. A more moderate approach would be far healthier without the immense repercusions so evident.

Love is about others (and God) it incorporates giving of oneself. Its like saying 'I love you' when in fact all they mean is 'you make me feel good' instead of really loving someone. How do you give of yourself if you are detached????? Sex is about intimacy (most of the time depending on your circumstances). My personaly experience of the backwash of BK-dom shows me very little or anything to do with true love. Godly or human.

Anyway, sorry, my 2 cents worth.

I just knew you would put the word down exactly like i mean it. BKs are forced to be dead, like being in meditation all the time, remember Baba and so one. Forget your children and everybody else.

Thanks Di,

Ha ha Mr. Green. You should see how pretty i am . Love, Jan

BKs are forced to be dead, like being in meditation all the time, remember Baba and so one. Forget your children and everybody else.

Exactly. BKs are told they should "die while alive," also "die a living death." Some, like Arjun who posts here, do not seem especially dead. Unfortunately many (and I include myself) really mess themselves up--commit a kind of spiritual suicide--when they attempt to rewire their reward systems according to BK theories of how to receive and share Godly Happiness. What's ironic is that the people in question think they are more alive, enlightened, living in the now, etc.

Can we just go back to the original quote for a moment?

"Furthermore, women can raise their IQ with every orgasm that they experience."

What ... all the way to infinity? Well, I suppose that explains why there are so many stupid women in the world ... !?! At least we know what they are not having. So does that mean that having sex x,000 times is going to increase your brain power more than, say, learning calculus? (Annabel Chong did not seem all that smart to me).

Any long-legged beauty girl annoys you, especially if she looks younger and prettier. A photograph of a beautiful model wearing fancy designer clothes ruins your entire day. Only passionate sex can save you from this infirmity ...

"Only" ... !?! What ever happened to self-respect and self-esteem and some sort of self-value based on virtues, ethics or intelligence? Or dare I say feminism?

Psychologists say that it is much easier for a woman to learn how to love herself, if she has a man, who desires and worships her.

Is not it all a little bit egotistical and immature? Its utterly contrary to any spiritual training. Placing the point of focus onto something temporary and external to the self!?! May be none of us are worth worshipping, so why should we be artificially bolstered in this way?

I have no problems with yogis being yogi. In fact, I think the problem is that the yogis are not being yogi enough. The yogi path was never meant to be some New Age cure for cellulite nor to help individuals grow bigger breasts (and from personal experience, sex does not do that either).

Sure, of course, to get ahead you on the yogi path one has to dump the wife and kids (albeit better to have been wiser never to have had any in the first place or wait until the next life), gamble this life for the next, burn your bridges behind you, cut yourself off and surrender everything. Since when did it become some lifestyle enhancing, confidence booster? Its like saying, "Oh, why do not athletes just sit on the couch and watch TV ... or dancers give up all that painful stretching ... why don't scientist just give up being clever and stop thinking of numbers" ... why does not everyone just stop making sacrifices or aspiring, and become mediocre and inane?

I don't think the BKs are wrong for being BKs. I think the BKs are wrong for not being BK enough; confusing the issues, muddying the waters and suckering all sorts of folks in through the front door that should not be anyhere near a Yoga cente. (Including many of their teachers and leaders!). And, I am sorry, but I don't think folks that have not walk the path, such as journalists, psychologists and whoever, are really qualified to comment because essentially, all they are doing is pushing their own half-baked, half-lived agendas.

The worst thing about sex is that, beyond the mental fantasies induced by the chemicals produced during infatuation, to do it you generally have to put up with some other equally moody, demanding, insecure, time-wasting human being in your life.

I have no problems with yogis being yogi. In fact, I think the problem is that the yogis are not being yogi enough. [...] I think the BKs are wrong for not being BK enough; confusing the issues, muddying the waters and suckering all sorts of folks in through the front door that should not be anyhere near a Yoga center.

An interesting point of view. A good launching point for a poll: do you think the BKs, or the path followed by the BKs, or the BKWSU (or other BK Raja Yoga based organziation) can be somehow fixed?

The worst thing about sex is that, beyond the mental fantasies induced by the chemicals produced during infatuation, to do it you generally have to put up with some other equally moody, demanding, insecure, time-wasting human being in your life.

I've said myself (half-joking) that I have room for only one Drama Queen in my life.

I think there are other dimensions of partnership possible to even the moodiest, most demanding, insecure and time-wasting among us. Intimacy can help us to address such issues in ourselves, and gives us a motivation (and rewards) for addressing them.

Even if we believe there to be no hope to improve (or even no desire to improve) such pathologies, Cupid's magic (which you refer to as 'infatuation') does have a remarkable way of bringing people out of the ruts of their self confinement. A kind of unintended blessing.

Women from Venus, men from Mars thing. Women are more emotive, men more physical.

Look at it this way: The base chakra is supposedly linked to Mars (considered male) whilst the second or sacral chakra is aligned with Venus (female) - anyone requiring an anatomy lesson to explain this is welcome. To ask. Men are certainly Marsupials and Women are Venus de Milo.

Thank you Joel for your diplomacy.

I suppose some of us think that sex can be a lot more than just chemical induced fantasies that screw with you mind.

Point taken Ex-I. I think perhaps this moody demanding, insecure, time-wasting human being had better go and take my half baked, half lived agendas and be quiet as I am not a BK and obviously therefore not qualified to comment or offer an opinion that would be considered of any value. I only offered the other side and the results brought about by the people who do walk the path. I do not consider myself to be inane or mediocre with no aspirations or sacrifices, and I have never harmed anyone the way the BK teachings of love has harmed me and my family. I appologise for taking your time, won't be a problem again.

The worst thing about sex is that, beyond the mental fantasies induced by the chemicals produced during infatuation, to do it you generally have to put up with some other equally moody, demanding, insecure, time-wasting human being in your life.

Although people criticize BKs/PBKs for denying themselves the pleasure of sex, I feel that if celibacy is practiced from the heart (and not brain) then it can be an much more pleasant experience.

The momentary pleasure that one derives from sex can be achieved for a longer period if one practices Rajyog (including soul consciousness, purity, etc.) sincerely. My experience says that body consciousness acts as a catalyst for the desire of physical pleasure. And since all BKs and PBKs are not 100% soul conscious, the influence of body consciousness on any soul in the form of physical desires could be varied depending on the karmic accounts and surroundings of that soul.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Point taken Ex-I. I think perhaps this moody demanding, insecure, time-wasting human being had better go and take my half baked, half lived agendas and be quiet as I am not a BK and obviously therefore not qualified to comment or offer an opinion that would be considered of any value. I only offered the other side and the results brought about by the people who do walk the path. I do not consider myself to be inane or mediocre with no aspirations or sacrifices, and I have never harmed anyone the way the BK teachings of love has harmed me and my family. I appologise for taking your time, won't be a problem again.

One of the big problems in the West, and increasing the rest of the world under its capitalistic and pornographic influence, is that we are being drowned in the half-baked, half-conceived, addictive, brain-sapping twaddle about sex and intimacy by film-makers, advertising men, marketeers, "liberals", misplaced interfering do-gooders etc. All of them very unenlightened and subject to "Samsara".

I cannot be accused of not attempting to properly discuss this entire issue, within a BK/ex-BK context. Folks going off in a subjective or hurt huff about it, just because an objective statement does not suit their own needs, wants, state of consciousness, does not really help. I am sorry that you are not willing to go into some depth about this subject because it might actually help you understand the situation with your partner ... and yourself. Sadly, such is its nature, sex is still mostly done as a hugely unconscious, unthought through act.

And no, I am sorry again, but whereas a "yogi soul" will have experienced a mundane life, if you have never experienced or had it in you to aspire to a "yogic life", you and the secular experts, are no more going to understand it than a fish will understand a bird. It is going to appear utterly alien to you.

But understand my position. I think it is;

• utter wrong that the BKWSU sell their practise to folks already in family or relationships KNOWING fine that it is going to destroy that family or relationship.
• utter wrong that the BKWSU sell their practise to folks as some New Age lifestyle enhancement device, like a new kitchen or outfit.
• utter wrong that the BKWSU sell their practise to folks as a panacea for any superficial ailment that they might have; peacelessness of mind, cancer, alcoholism, lack of success in one's personal life.
• utter wrong that the BKWSU sell their practise to "beleaguered minorites" as a loving support and empowerment trip, e.g.; mothers, women, alcoholics, gays, people of color etc.

But I do not think a "yogic life" is wrong. I think that mostly it is absolutely right. It needs to be and is meant to be the way it is in order to achieve the goals it sets itself.

What the BKWSU is doing is wrong but not because your, or our, little lives have been turned upside down by it. Your, or our, little lives are about as important as the lives of the termites chewing at your home's foundations. What the BKWSU is doing is wrong in this area is because it is not being honest and forthright.

A "yogic life" is meant to turn your life inside out. It is meant to destroy your old self and old relationships. It is meant to be really, really tough, challenging and demanding. It is meant to break you apart many, many times. It is meant to be socially, physically and emotionally uncomfortable. And, yes, it will deliver tremendous highs, and achievements, that eclipse sex.

In defense of an objective view of the act of sex, the only thing I could confidently add to the conversation is that, done well, it can be a lot more than a momentary pleasure. Indeed, it can last for many hours with its effects for days after. And that women, by design, technically have a far greater physical advantage and ability to experience this than men. This attitude of "momentary pleasure" seems to have been put around by men who are, generally, pretty bad at sex. You see, back to that old problem of having to involve and depend on another human being ... a 45 second roll-on, roll-off service.

But ... sex can not be isolated from all the other things that it comes along with; the worst from a yogi point of view being the psychic bondages to other human beings whose aims and objective are at odds with spiritual development. Others being; the lows after the highs, death, disease, discomfort, addiction, pregnancy, effort and expense, heart break, in-laws and everything else. "Pleasure" is not the same as momentary mental relief from displeasure which is how sex is being defined in that article. In theory, the yogi steps back and questions the entire swing or cycle of pleasure and displeasure and seeks to avoid both as a path to blissfulness.

I think there are other dimensions of partnership possible to even the moodiest, most demanding, insecure and time-wasting among us.

I accept that. I underline the dangerous of the BKWSU messing with society's fabric and structures without providing an alternative, underlining the role of human bonding and partnerships in the basic elements of day to day survival, physical security and old age. The BKWSU has never had to consider that because it always taught its followers, from the 1930s onwards, that the world was about to end in flames any day. And now that it is 70 years old, the old vampires have lucked out because they have managed to build a structure for themselves that will will look after THEIR welfare and are selling it under the pretense that it will look after all other BKs in the same way (if they find/convert their devotees) ... but it wont. Its just another numbers game, another pyramid marketing scam that will financially take care of a few at the cost of the many.

I wanted to clarify one matter and add a second;

• Firstly, the termites have a higher place in my esteem than Western materialists as at least they play an essential ecological role in the decomposition and recycling of cellulose, a sense of natural order, and they are unlikely to destroy the planet.

(Indeed, it is a good question they do not inherit the Golden Age rather than be magically excluded from it along with all the rest of bug life.)

• Secondly, the "yogi life" and the "yogic social structures" have always been parasitical on, and controlling of, the mundane majority.

The "mundane majority" are essentially lower down the psychic food chain and food for the higher psychic predators. Good examples of this are the BKWSU, the Tibetan monasteries, the Holy Empire of Rome etc. All the celibate orders are vampiric psychic parasites. (This makes me wonder if there are actually a Dark Side and a Light Side to these orders, i.e. that what we are seeing is the "Dark Side" merely masquerading as the "Light Side" in order to thrive).

Its worth studying termite society as it is remarkably close to the BKWSU model! I am starting to wonder if the BKWSU heat for VIP is similar and to do with the termites hunt for "reproductives" in competing social orders, e.g. seek other colony's king or queen (the politician or VIP), cut their head off and then you have control of all their lower social orders.

The royal couples of the BKWSU, or the psychic entities behind the BKWSU, have been going out conquering family group after group expanding its celibate army. I see the reproductive partnerships, within the BKWSU model, as being the mediums and the channelled entities. The "Mother and the Father" to quote the BKs.

Reproductive self-interest - the passing of genes to offspring to perpetuate their lineage -- is one of the basics of Darwin's theory. But evolving and thriving for millions of years are creatures that, except for the queen and king of their colony, don't ever reproduce.

In fact, most of them spend their lives just helping and defending the royal couple, a celibate lifestyle that seems to fly in the face of evolution's drive for organisms to pass their genes to the next generation.

"So why do helpers sacrifice their own reproduction and hang out in their parents' colony?" Barbara Thorne asks about the insects she has studied for 25 years. "Darwin thought it had something to do with family. We think he got that right, although in a way he probably never considered. We revealed a situation in which parents are quite vulnerable, so offspring stand to gain an early inheritance."

By staying with their family, offspring are protected, they have food, they help rear their siblings, and they have a chance to inherit the nest and colony if a parent is killed in battle. That's a bonanza payoff if it happens, whereas it's a big risk to leave the nest to try to start one's own colony.

So likewise, the orginal Dadi and Didis were actually quite vulnerable and attracted support from a vigorous second division; the Dadas, the Jankis and Jayantis, the Ken and Brians, the Mikes and Miriams, that stand to benefit and gain, and at the very least establish their own colonies. [Let's face it the middle management have a lot more in common with a soldier termites protecting their queens than they do holy angels of light ].

For the worker termites, the mundane majorities, or the BK laity, the result is the same. You eat **** and die. its all down to your karma and the flavor of **** you prefer.

Is it correct that the first drop of sex-lust came from the soul of Brahma Baba? This occurred on the first day into the Copper Age, as there were no vices before that as these were latent in the souls.

Hey ex-l, I think you need to learn some new techniques .

Is it correct that the first drop of sex-lust came from the soul of Brahma Baba? This occurred on the first day into the Copper Age, as there were no vices before that as these were latent in the souls.

It is believed as per the Advanced Knowledge (being given to PBKs by ShivBaba through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) that the sex-lust began after the arrival of Prophet Abraham from the Soul World to establish Islam at the beginning of the Copper Age.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

I agree with your sentiments Jan, I am working very hard to make myself healthy as often as I can . I am very charitable in this and will help any Sister to become healthy (especially the pretty ones).

For this, and your earlier comment about going for Sisters in saris, the feminist sanskars I have left over would like to kick your ass ... forgetting all entreaties by BapDada on the 17th March to have good wishes and be a benefactor.

Well, I am gonna be a minority here I can tell, but I want to say my experience. I was in a relationship that wasnt going anywhere when I came to Gyan. I wasn't about to give up sex just because the Murli said so, but the guy basically did not love me and had about as much emotional give in him as a dead haddock. So I broke up with him. Would things have been different if he had been more giving? Could I have still followed this path? Well, I guess I'll never know! I used to find that because of my low self esteem, I would become a really needy person as soon as I got into a relationship. I hated this about myself but could not seem to do anything about it.

I've had a lucky experience in an unconventional Brahmin life for the last 12 years. I met the right people and developed self-esteem and confidence. Still not 100% but much better. So, would I still want to go into a relationship now? The answer for me is not so much to do with sex as the relationship. The answer is still no. Simply because it could not in all fairness bring me all the things I want! Before I broke with the last guy I was going out with I wrote him a letter, saying all the things I had wanted from the relationship.

Looking back, I realised no human being could supply all that! I also do not want to be limited by someone else's vision of me. How many guys are going to see all the greatness and power I have in me and be happy with it! Too much challenge for the ego!

I know a lot of you do not believe that Shiv Baba is a reality, so maybe you would see me as pscychotic but, to me, my relationship with Shiva Baba is deeply sustaining. I am also lucky to have some good BK friends who have always had love and faith in me. I feel the mistake BKs have made with sex/relationships is by adopting the Christians puritanical attitude rather than just seeing the thing for what it is. Fear and judgement. The things that are strangling this organisation.

The real question I feel here is about attachment and relationships. Sex itself on its own without love, although physically satisfying, is emotionally empty. And in a world where most humans are looking for what they can get for themselves; caring, sharing and equal relationships would look to be in the minority against co-dependant needy relationships.

For anyone who seriously wants a relationship; I would say, go for it; but do some research first! Gaye Hendricks has written a great book called Conscious Loving Conscious Loving Journey which details how to avoid/heal the pitfalls of co-dependancy in relationships. Otherwise, you find someone who will support your crap and then you end up blaming them for it!! You only have to look at the divorce and single parent statistics to find a world of people doing that.

Celibacy for me was a personal choice. I am not a victim. No one pointed a gun to my head and forced me. I decided it was what I wanted. I have continued to make that personal choice every day, in the same way I have continued to make every decision in my Brahmin life.

Hey, I never said that about saris!!!!!!!!! They did not do it for me, I am much more your mini skirt man.

Celibacy is fine if that's what you want and sex is fine if that's what you want. Why bother judging others? ... It's all OK, it is your life ... groove on down.