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XBK Chat (unofficial archive)
A former meeting place for past members of Brahma Kumaris
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ex-london
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 131
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 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:38 pm Post subject: Response to the B.K. Satish's Whitewash |
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| satish wrote: |
Lastly from above description I would say there are no official policies or rules that can be set by seniors in BK world. This official rules, which is called shrimath, contains only ways to attain purity, would set by one and only shivaBaba
thanks
with love
satish |
This is not true Satish.
Unless you are going to state how long you have been in Gyan and probably with which centre, you are right, you are probably best not to get involved anymore.
For the concerned member of public, potential B.K. or member of interested authory that finds and read these pages, it ought to be made clear that the advice of " Senior Sisters " is considered " Shrimat ", which in B.K. talk means equal to God's own words.
In B.K. life, you are - or at least were - encouraged to take any serious problem to your Senior most Sister to discuss and take advice which was to be acted upon. Likewise, if you made any mistake, or sinned, you were expected to write it down in confession and send it to the headquarters in India.
You were also told that to follow this Shrimat [ approx translation : Supreme Word ] of the Senior Sisterswas the only safe path to take - and even if it all went wrong, that was OK, " God " was take responsibility for it. Taking Shrimat from the Senior Sisters is something students - and certainly sisters in charge of centres - were encouraged to do on an almost ritual basis.
In B.K. there is a very strong authoritarian and peer to peer influence *NOT* to follow one's own intuitions or instincts. This is call " Manmat " [ approx. translation : the word / creation of your own mind ]. You are constant warned *NOT* to follow your own mind, that you cannot trust the thoughts within your own mind, and to follow " God's Words " or " Shrimat ". Indeed, what Satish is taking about is not so much " attaining purity " - which sounds innocent, worth and benign - but what the B.K.'s call " Manmanabhav " [ approx translation : surrendering one's own mind in order to be consumed in the mind of that spirit, or those spirits, that they believe are " God " ].
When a situation arises that is not clarified by the what is believed to be " God's " only spoken word, the " Murlis "
[ ... and remember - strictly speaking & support by written documents - by B.K. beliefs *ALL* other religious documents such as The Bible, The Koran, The Talmud, The Dhammapada, the works of Freud, Jung et al and so on are written by impure souls, in darkness of ignorance who have never met God or been enlightened at that point and must be avoided at all costs ... ]
then the junior student is expect to seek clarification from their senior and accept the senior's advice as God's.
Bearing in mind that all B.K. are also strongly and repetitively disencouraged - if not actually forbidden - to seek advice over issue from *ANY* external individual or organisation, all of which are seen, said and written to be " completely impure " and " completely ignorant ". This means closest physical family and professionals, contemporary sources and media.
Given that B.K.s are - by their faith and their " God's " advice - essentialy locked out of any social contact or influence with anyone else, this monopoly of influence is almost utterly complete. Any B.K. ignoring the seniors and following their own opinions will be punished, generally by some sort of social humiliation in the first place, then by non-democratic, unaccountable social ostracisation, latterly by being bannishment.
In my own experience, and that of other immediately close to me, this degree of control by the Seniors extends to one's appearance [ clothes, hairstyle ], one's education, one's relationships [ sex or even emotional attachments forbidden obviously - single sex friends only ] one's employment, business or career ambitions [ which are actively discouraged ].
And bear in mind that these Seniors are generally individuals that have never held a job down, been through further education, had a family or done anything outside of B.K.. They are, of course, still considered to be amongst the 8, 108, or at least 16,108 *MOST* enlightened soul that the world has ever known and have had the most lives possible [ 84 ] and so I suppose actually doing worldly stuff is not necessary to them.
The most of them were financially supported by their families until the point that they left and then financially supported by Dada Lehkraj and are now financially supported by the donations given to the B.K. organisation.
Personally, I always thought it would be interested to put them in a situation where they had to get a job in an ordinary situation, hold it down and support themselves for a while to see how well they and their spiritual " stages " get on.
| satish wrote: |
Probably you are right, frustration is dominating in ex-london.
Thanks
With love
satish
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This is awfully condescending whilst in denial of the truth again, Satish.
Satish, I came seeking knowledge because I have a love of truth. Truth is not always pretty but has to be looked at face on.
I received a mouthful of salt in the milk I was given. I defy you or any other experience B.K. to deny any of what I have written above.
These are the truths of your religion. If they are not the current truth - and we have established that the Brahma Kumari's truths are not fixed by changing - then they are certainly the truths that built the hierarchy and establishment that runs the B.K. empire.
Am I right or am I wrong? |
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satish
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Dear brother
You ask whether you are right. I dont know. But I know I am still searching for truth. And I can understand you that you feel very much upset with Brahma kumaris. The reason is obvious that you are very much involved in it. From my experience I see nothing in this world is so pure to experience and expect happiness and love. At your side I think you are right at your heart. You are also right when you said I dont have much involvement in BK world. And also I dont want to be involved now. And I believe GOD has role of helping us only in knowing soul/spirtual conscious in us, where as good and bad in us taken care of by matter that happen due to body/material conscious.
I believe in saying that nothing is in our hands. We end up in unhappiness mostly even when we try to take a step towards happiness. This looks ridiculous. But still this is truth. And when one live in truth I guess he would be peaceful inside.
Lastly brother what my point is it is good to throw away BKworld and to that matter any spiritual belief or religious belief when they are not really helping us for any spiritual upliftment inside.
thanks
with love
satish |
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ex-london
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: "Take a holy sweetie & you will feel better in the |
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| satish wrote: | | You ask whether you are right. I dont know. |
Well look, ask, examine first.
| satish wrote: |
You are also right when you said I dont have much involvement in BK world. And also I dont want to be involved now.
What my point is it is good to throw away BKworld and to that matter any spiritual belief or religious belief when they are not really helping us for any spiritual upliftment inside.
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Well, thanks for confirming what I thought.
Now, rather than colouring me personally with negative values that might devalue the objective facts I report for other's benefit; frustrated, unhappy etc. go check the facts and add them up. It might take some digging but they are there to be found.
I'd say when one " lives in truth " one would be motivated to help or save others from untruth and at times that motivation might be quite dynamic. You should not immediately apply a negative value to dynamic forces.
This is a typical B.K. method of disarming even valid statements and change. A sort of passive supressive " dont-rock-the-boat " mode they use so well.
" Oh, Om Shanti Sweet bhai ... Remember Baba ... hahah ... take a holy sweetie and you will feel better in the morning ... "
Why defend it?
I think what you have mixed up is your best and most earnest concepts of what God is and who represents him - and the B.K.s. You apparently don't want to see or hear statemental fact about them because they threaten those sweet cosy concepts.
This is very typical of the " God and Guru " type mental programming, I mention elsewhere, that we have installed within us that the B.K.s tap into so well. |
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satish
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'd say when one " lives in truth " one would be motivated to help or save others from untruth and at times that motivation might be quite dynamic. You should not immediately apply a negative value to dynamic forces. |
The word truth I used in my post is not the truth about BKs or one who is against them. I am out of this topic already when I said I am not gonna discuss this again. I tried to give advice just to say that we can get spirituality even being out of BK world. Spirituality has nothing to do with BK. Its only Bk has something to do with it(only if he wants that  )
The truth I was saying that I am still searching is something about the life of person. Truth in spiritual sense has far more different from truth you are talking about. Please understand this. And sorry for my unclear English.However I think you appreciate me to know atleast some English( pegion or whatever it is) being Indian lad who just know English reading it from text books. And also you know, English is necessasity these days to learn rather than interest 
thanks
with love
satish |
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hanuman
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:44 am Post subject: Woman Told To Have Abortion By Senior Sister |
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There was once a young and brillant Western anthropologist conducting an ethnographic study in a remote region on women. Part of the study required her to interview the women of the villages making up the traditional society.
She was asking many questions. She was asked by the women about her marital status. She stated she was single. The village women informed her that she was not qualified to study them.
If I personally needed advice on an issue involving science, I would always make sure that the senior BK had a science background. On issues dealing with clashes of sanskars; does the senior BK have trench experience managing conflicts in the West and East? There were sometimes, decisions which I felt a senior BK could not have addressed to my maximum benefit balanced with the best interests of the BK mission.
In the US ARMED Forces generals are not promoted unless they have had combat experiences.
THERE IS THAT INNER VOICE IN EACH SOUL THAT GOD CAN USE TO GUIDE SOULS. I learned early in gyan to listen to that Inner Voice. It is the voice of the spirit or spirits. THE SPIRIT IS TRUTHFUL! 
_________________
Om Shanti,
To my brothers and sisters.
Love to you all,
Errol bhai |
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zhukov
Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ex-london wrote: | In B.K. there is a very strong authoritarian and peer to peer influence *NOT* to follow one's own intuitions or instincts. This is call " Manmat " [ approx. translation : the word / creation of your own mind ]. You are constant warned *NOT* to follow your own mind, that you cannot trust the thoughts within your own mind, and to follow " God's Words " or " Shrimat ". Indeed, what Satish is taking about is not so much " attaining purity " - which sounds innocent, worth and benign - but what the B.K.'s call " Manmanabhav " [ approx translation : surrendering one's own mind in order to be consumed in the mind of that spirit, or those spirits, that they believe are " God " ].
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And if you can't perform that mental magic-trick to deny your own instincts, then you are - according to "The Knowledge" [tm] (thanks for that ex-london!) - lost forever without hope (ie Baba) in the BK universe 
and of course that serves you right; it being karma after all |
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