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XBK Chat (unofficial archive)
A former meeting place for past members of Brahma Kumaris
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bansy
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 84
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 Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:07 am Post subject: Double Foreigners - Definition and Origin |
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Some previous post in this forum mentioned they were triple foreigners which led me to ponder ....
(1) Does anyone know when the term Double Foreigners (DF) was first used in the murlis ? All I know is that it seperates Bharatwasis from non-Bharat folks..seemingly from an Indian perspective due to a large number of Indian immigration from India in the 50s, 60s.
Can a DF eventually become a Bharatwasis (e.g. as of some westerners who now reside in Mt Abu) ?
Could the term have started before 1969 ? I don't think so. Unless you can go through the 5 years of (available) murlis before time that to see if the term has been used.
Has the term itself evolve dover time ? Such as
(a) Did the term first refer to Indians living outside India
(b) Then... to Non-Indians living outside India.
(c) When (and who if you know) was the first non-Indian (i.e westerner) to visit Madhuban ?
(2) Branching out from this subject...as a slightly different issue but I'll leave it in the same post...
How comfortable are DFs are about Bharat being mentioned time and time again in murlis, whilst most DFs (Indians or non-Indian) do not live in Bharat ? OK, we all (from a BK perspective) know where our original home, but for spiritual service and this final 84th birth, if Bharat is the only place to be, what is the point for the Rest of the World ROW ? |
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howiemac
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Double Foreigners - Definition and Origin |
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| AFAIK 'double foreigner' is someone who is foreign to India, and (by virtue of being a BK) foreign in their own country. |
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John
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | if Bharat is the only place to be, what is the point for the Rest of the World |
The message has to reach everywhere in the world |
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bansy
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The message has to reach everywhere in the world |
The new world take roots in Bharat, so OK the tree grows from there and spreads according to BK knowledge. I heard recently that London is often praised (as World Service started there) but it wasn't the first place outside India the yagya first travelled to.
A large proportion of BKs are in India so Bharat is repeatedly mentioned in the murlis. Then (I guess) London is next followed by Australia (which has also recently been getting praise).
The message seems to be to clean up Bharat first everyone, and then your own locations will also be cleaned up afterwards. i.e Paradise comes to Bharat first, then spread out to the ROW. In the meantime, clean yourself up now so that in the NEXT birth you'll be born in Paradise.
| Quote: | | AFAIK 'double foreigner' is someone who is foreign to India, and (by virtue of being a BK) foreign in their own country. |
Whilst muslims have their "Mecca" and annual pilgramages, does anyone know of a term similar to Double Foreigner to label pilgrims outside Saudi Arabia ?
Sometimes it feels the term "DF" is equivalent to labelling "gweilos" used in HK and "gaijins" used in Japan even if you were physically born in those countries. Why need a term if all souls are the same if all are soul conscious ? Hence I feel "DF" originally related to Indians born outside India but later applied to westerners. There were no DFs when the yagya started surely. However having the "DF" applied to you means you do get VIP treatment as long as it lasts so is not derogatory. |
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Frank
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 36
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| bansy wrote: | | Quote: | | The message has to reach everywhere in the world |
The new world take roots in Bharat, so OK the tree grows from there and spreads according to BK knowledge. I heard recently that London is often praised (as World Service started there) but it wasn't the first place outside India the yagya first travelled to.
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Om Shanti,
This is what I also heared. It seems that Germany (land of swastika  )was the first country the Yagya went to. Some German hippies went to Madhuban and started to attend the Murli in hindi. Day after day they sat there listening. Then one day one of the Dadi's asked them if they could understand everything in Hindi. "Not a word" they said, "But the admosphere and vibrations are so good, that we are intoxicated every day" Thus the 7 day course was translated and later the Murli too. I heared in Germany that Stephan Nagel was one of the first BKs outside of India. This is probably one of the reasons that in 2000 Gulzar dadi herself came to Germany to open the Frankfurt (head) centre, wheras normally she does not leave India so often other than for an important reason.
When I was in Madhuban we (My German brother Jan, some bro from GRC and I) were joking about the term "double foreighners", for it seems soo double and not contributing to equality in the BK. We thought the VIP treatment could easily throw sand in the eyes of consiousness. DF are praised so much in Madhuban, that it is blocking the ability as a DF to find out what really is going on in Madhuban. Or is it letting the DF believe certain things? It does not feel right to get VIP treatment in the face of equality. It makes some BKs arrogant.
We thought that the institution, not Baba or the simple BKs generates these labels
We came up, as a joke, with the new label of "Triple Foreighners". Foreigner to India, your own country and the institution. 
As a TRIPLE FOREIGHNER you have the labelless label thus being an incognito detached observer.
So be free, be the trimurti triple foreigner soul!
_________________
ONLY SILENCE REMAINS,
when I listen to him,
when I listen to the silence |
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ex-london
Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Frank,
After Stephan Nagel then came John Kane (English), Joy (English), Madaline (English), Nik C. (Italian), 8/2/75 Charlie (OZ), Simon(OZ, Ken(OZ), Michael Timmins(OZ), Maureen & David (English), Waddy (Irish) and then a group of about thrity (1976-1977) in England (Julian was in this group.
There was a couple of Westerners that met Brahma Baba in Mt. Abu in the sixties, but never became BKs.
This I what I know.
Regards,
ex-london |
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bansy
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It seems that Germany (land of swastika )was the first country the yagya went to. |
Wasn't it an Asian tour first... to Japan, HK ...? I heard that Japan recently celebrated a Golden Jubilee so that makes it at least 1954-55, where Dadi Ratanmohini and Dada Vishore plus another Dada made their first trip (apologies if names are spelt wrong, cannot recall exact right now). Dadi R made an Asian trip last year.
However from the book AdiDev, it seems all the yagya went around the world almost at the same time. though I would have thought they would have first have gone to where there were Sindhi/Hindu folks (immigration in 50's/60's) living in those countries and tried giving service to them. I don't expect any Oriental Asians to have made a trip to Madhuban at that time, or even come across Raja Yoga so early, so having the Europeans and Australians to be the first Western BKs makes sense.
| Quote: | | dadi's asked them if they could understand everything in hindi. |
Hope I don't get asked if I understand it even in English.  |
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hanuman
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:42 am Post subject: Double Foriengers |
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Tete,
There is a need to add to your history and geography of the spread of BK Raj Yog outside of India.
There were specific phases of service outside of Bharat.
Service centers were established in Africa in the early 1970's.
The first center established in the Americas, was established in Guyana in April 1976. Service commenced in Guyana in December of 1975. Yours truely came into gyan in Guyana, 12/24/75.
Though Guyana played a significant role in the launching of service in North America, Denise bhen and Chandru bhen, along with Simon and Hansa, were instruments responsible for service in the South West United States.
Rick played a signal role in establishing service in Florida in the eraly 1980s. Barbara bhen played a signal role in establishing service in Alabama in 1978.
Mohni Bhen along with Gyatri bhen played a significant role for service in New York, especially with respect to the UN.
Christine Choy, Walter Choy and Andrew Choy along with
Gyaniwasi and the Narine Family were pillars of Raj Yog in the West Indies.
For those whose names I have not listed, please accept my apologies.
The scribes of history will never forget you!
Dear Tete, again, no offense meant! 
_________________
Om Shanti,
To my brothers and sisters.
Love to you all,
Errol bhai |
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