Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980s)

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ex-l

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Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980s)

Post05 Dec 2011

A Follower wrote:Osho, my wife has become a Brahma Kumari of the Raj Yogis of Prajapita Brahma in Mount Abu.

It is hard for me to accept her way, especially her ideal of purity and her believing in such things as the 5,000 year cycle of mankind which will end in about 1987 in a big atomic war and natural catastrophes to start a new Golden Age. What can I do?

Taken from Osho Guida Spirituale. Osho, aka Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (or Chandra Mohan Jain), was an Indian guru who's religion became later became pretty much the embodiment of an infamous cult after establishing itself in the USA. However, one thing that is interesting about him is that, in its early day, his sect held retreats in Mount Abu and so he had access to the Brahma Kumaris and their teachings.

This quote is from 1980 when the BKs were telling their adherents that Destruction was to happen in 1987.

He mentions that they had changed the date "on many occasions in the previous 30 years", something we only found out recently and which the Brahma Kumari leadership keeps hidden from their following to this day. See bold text below.

He also offers some advice for those whose partners are being sucked into the BKWSU.
Osho wrote:Prem Hari,

You need not do anything. Let her have her own way. You can see the nonsense that she is falling into, but that is her freedom, and one learns only by experience. If you try to pull her out she will not be able to live her experience totally.

In the first place it will be almost impossible for you to pull her out because mind functions in a very different way. Your very effort will push her deeper into the mire. And a husband particularly is the last person to transform a wife or convert a wife - impossible. Wives can convert husbands very easily, but husbands have never been known to convert wives. A wife can nag you - she knows the art, that is part of her feminineness. She will torture you in such subtle ways that finally you have to give in. It is very difficult to find a husband who is not henpecked.

All husbands are bound to be henpecked. If somebody is not henpecked that simply means that he is not a husband. He may be somebody else but he is not a husband. And every husband knows it and every wife knows it. But wives are very clever. They go on giving the sense to the husband that he is the master, and deep down they know who is the master, so what is wrong in it, let him pretend. So he can go and walk in the streets and in the factories and in the offices as if he is the master! The wife gives him enough rope. But remember, it is a rope and the wife keeps the other end in her hand. Enough rope she gives - go on pretending - but she is the real master.

So if your wife was trying to get you out of the hold of these so-called Prajapita Brahma and their Brahma Kumaris then it would have been very easy. But it will be almost impossible for you. And I think it is a good chance to get rid of her. Don't miss the opportunity. People are so foolish. When opportunity knocks on the door they complain about the noise!

It is such a good opportunity, such a golden opportunity for you. You are out of the mousetrap. Why do you want to get into the mousetrap again? Let her do her own thing. She will learn by bitter experience. I know these fools because I have been visiting Mount Abu for almost twenty years.

India has given birth to two of the most stupid religious movements. One is Hare Krishna - that has become worldwide. The other is these Brahma Kumaris, it has not reached the whole world, it has remained confined to India. They talk utter nonsense, and they talk with authority. And they go on saying everything.

This date that you mention that in 1987 this world will end... This date has changed many times in thirty years, and it will change again. But fools are fools. '87 is not far away, only seven years. And you will see that in '87 it will become something else - '97 or 2000 will be exact, the right time.

It goes on, it goes on changing. And people are so foolish, they go on believing.
...

Your wife has gone into some stupid ideology. It is good riddance. Forget her. She will come to her senses if you don't try to force her. And the world is not going to end, because everybody is aware that now war has become meaningless. The whole meaning of war is in getting victorious. Now nobody can be the victor. The days of war are over, the days of love are coming. And this world is not going to end, but certainly it is going to go through a tremendous change, a radical transformation.

I am preparing you for that radical transformation. I want you to be the future of humanity. And of course, you are worried about her ideal of purity.

Indians have very strange ideas about purity. They have suffered much because of that. The whole country lives with such deep suppression, with such deep unnaturalness that everybody is miserable, everybody is sad and serious ... Indians have a strange idea of spirituality. Their whole mind is sexual and they talk of purity in the sense of no sexuality - to drop sexuality is to be pure. Then only amoebas are pure ...

You cannot be pure because you are born out of sexuality in the first place. How can you be pure? You cannot change your birth, it has already happened. You came out of your mother and Father's sexuality. Half the cells of your body belong to your Father, and half the cells belong to your mother. They are sexual, those cells are sexual. Hence each man carries within him a woman - his mother. And each woman carries a man within her - her Father. And now psychologists have come to a certain insight into it.

So, Prem Hari, it is good. Thank these Brahma Kumaris of Mount Abu - they have been of tremendous help to you ... Don't be bothered at all. Let her try her own way; and everybody has the freedom to do whatsoever he likes, she likes. Don't interfere. You be on your path and let her seek her own path. She will come sooner or later because nobody is so foolish as to remain trapped into something ridiculous. But it helps many people at least to get rid of their absurd ideas.

In this world everything has a purpose. There are so many fools - that's why there are so many foolish philosophies. Wherever there is a demand there is going to be a supply. So your wife must have needed something like that.
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post13 Aug 2014

India has given birth to two of the most stupid religious movements. One is Hare Krishna - that has become worldwide. The other is these Brahma Kumaris, it has not reached the whole world, it has remained confined to India. They talk utter nonsense, and they talk with authority. And they go on saying everything.

This date that you mention that in 1987 this world will end... This date has changed many times in thirty years, and it will change again. But fools are fools. '87 is not far away, only seven years. And you will see that in '87 it will become something else - '97 or 2000 will be exact, the right time.

It goes on, it goes on changing. And people are so foolish, they go on believing. ...

Amazing, his predictions about BKs were quite precise, is not it?
Indians have very strange ideas about purity. They have suffered much because of that. The whole country lives with such deep suppression, with such deep unnaturalness that everybody is miserable, everybody is sad and serious ... Indians have a strange idea of spirituality. Their whole mind is sexual and they talk of purity in the sense of no sexuality - to drop sexuality is to be pure. Then only amoebas are pure ...

Again, I have to agree with him. India does have a long history of sexual suppression as a society. Even till date, Indians including myself, are not very comfortable discussing sexuality issues with one another and say with their children, unlike Western people. Such suppression can come out as diverse perversions and when your mind is obsessed with it, you can go to either extreme ... for it or against it. BKs certainly are for the latter option, but its not very different from former, because in both cases, mind is filled with the same idea!
In this world everything has a purpose. There are so many fools - that's why there are so many foolish philosophies. Wherever there is a demand there is going to be a supply. So your wife must have needed something like that.

Quite true but as he said, everyone has freedom to have their experience and we are no one to interfere. Sharing experiences however may help confused minds to be little more alert on the way.
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ex-l

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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post13 Aug 2014

kmanaveen wrote:India does have a long history of sexual suppression as a society. Even till date, Indians including myself, are not very comfortable discussing sexuality issues with one another ... Such suppression can come out as diverse perversions and when your mind is obsessed with it, you can go to either extreme ... for it or against it. BKs certainly are for the latter option, but its not very different from former, because in both cases, mind is filled with the same idea!

Yes, I think you have to see the Brahma Kumaris view of sex, and evolutions of its disciplines, within their original contexts.

Those context swung from one extreme to the other and this is a history that is hidden, not discussed - like you say - and most BKs don't know about.

In the first place, there was basically the community sanctioned rape of girls and young women traditional to Indian society; arranged mis-marriages of even children to old men with no emotional feelings or spiritual compatibility involved (accept good example exist and efforts were made via astrologers etc but many more bad pairings for the sake of financial interests existed ... including Lekhraj Kirpalani's own daughter).

Then there was the short period of sensual indulgence during which enjoy his role of playing Krishna to the gopis and enjoying sensual pleasures with them; bathing semi-naked, hugging and sleep, sitting girls on his lap, massaging their breasts and feeding lovers mouth to mouth is documented and not denied (him and Om Radhe) and other activities are hinted it.

It was actually this that his society reacted against, not the later demand of rigid celibacy, separation of sexes and detach.

The BKWSU absolutely falsely portray this period and have removed the facts from their followers because even to this day it was uproar in India.


Therefore the BKs' rigidity developed as a respect to their communities reaction to Rajneesh type indulgences. It was don't for the sake of gaining acceptability and borrowed from other traditions.

I think that the majority of Brahma Kumaris would be much improved and developed spiritually if they were to have at least one experience of good, loveful, enjoyable, pleasurable sex and orgasm with someone they were attracted to and therefore open to. Wanted to open to.

BKism encourages closed-ness in order to separate individuals, cut them off from others in order to control them.

At least if they had one or two good experiences of sex ... as Lekhraj Kirpalani had ... they would be a little bit more informed about life and would see it in perspective rather than in the medieval horror show manner, say, Lekhraj Kirpalani and Jagdish Chander used to portray it.

Rajneesh understood this but it was not well accepted by Indian society, an Indian society which it has to be said was deeply hypocritical about sex, e.g. priest abusing girls, Brahmins having specialist prostitutes, rulers having harems and so on.

But I think historically the Victorian British are also partly to blame for the confusion about and, given Lekhraj Kirpalani's age, their influence and his attraction to them further confused the development of BK culture.

Then take that and try and apply it on top of post-1960s Western liberalism and you get the craziness of early BK-ism in the West.

My experience is that sex is not as much of a big thing spiritually as the BKs in their ignorance and fears of it make it out to be.
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post13 Aug 2014

Then there was the short period of sensual indulgence during which enjoy his role of playing Krishna to the gopis and enjoying sensual pleasures with them; bathing semi-naked, hugging and sleep, sitting girls on his lap, massaging their breasts and feeding lovers mouth to mouth is documented and not denied (him and Om Radhe) and other activities are hinted it.

What is this, ex-l? What are you talking about...I just cannot believe this, if its true. I must not say this but if all this is true then next birth of Lekhraj is in hell presently. Someone who is so much involved in sexuality & then instructing religious things is very large contradiction, deeper than all others & is bound to fall into lower life forms. [ Did he used to do all this in front of their followers or behind closed doors & then later it was re-interpreted??]
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post13 Aug 2014

Save Innocents wrote:I just cannot believe this, if its true. I must not say this but if all this is true then next birth of Lekhraj is in hell presently ... Did he used to do all this in front of their followers or behind closed doors & then later it was re-interpreted??]

It is all document within the court proceedings at the time. They are recorded in OM MANDLI: A true authenticated story about its activities being a reply to "Is This Justice?" (1940) by Bhaibund Om Mandli Committee.

In this department BKism became as it is not from within but from outside influences condemning it.
When I rejoined the institution after the break referred to above, I saw considerable degeneration in the moral tone of Dada Lekhraj as I saw him making girls sleep in his lap and embracing and kissing them and also pulling their breasts and touching them all over the body. He used to ask the girls also to kiss him and keep their hands on ... The girls used to feel abashed but had no power of resistance. He used to pay more court in this connection to ... because she has chubby cheeks and is very fair in her look and well built body ..... I used to hate my mother thereafter as she used to present me from going to Mandli.

Om Radhe, then a pretty, plump teenager, was directly questioned about Lekhraj Kirpalani kissing her, sitting her in his lap, and passing morsels of food mouth to mouth and did not deny it but said it was acceptable because Lekhraj Kirpalani was their spiritual Father. Bear in mind he had a wife and young children at the time.

They also speak of Lekhraj Kirpalani bathing with unmarried girls at least half-naked in the bathing pool which still exists at the old house.

He was playing Krishna to their Radhe and the Gopis. There was no God Shiva in the religion at the time, only him. God Shiva was not introduced until after 1955.

Possibly you can say the god spirit they call Shiva was present in him - that is what the revisionary BKs are not saying - but then if he was, the Shiva spirit was enjoying these sights and pleasures through Lekhraj Kirpalani and allowing him to do so ... another sign it is not divine. The BKs have since covered this up and re-written their history ... a sign they are not divine.

But what is interesting about Om Radhe's statements ... teenage Om Radhe's Father had died leaving her and her mother destitute and were taken by Lekhraj Kirpalani, she was obviously besotted with him and absolutely brainwashed ... is that she said it was no problem because "all of their actions were pure" ... an idea, again, taken from Krishna worship in Hinduism..
Om Radhe is too much under the hypnotic influence of Bhai Lekhraj to have a correct view about him would be obvious. Or there might be a tacit understanding between the Gyan-father and Gyan-daughter that although each of the knows the stuff of which the other is made, yet in public, they have to sing a different song, in other words, she has to bestow all the praise upon him to the point of proclaiming him as Lord Krishna
AFFIDAVIT

I, Shewakram Khubchand Daswani, state on solemn affirmation as under:-

1. That I have known Lekhraj Khubchand, founder of the Om Mandli since the last thrityfive years. His age at present in 54 years.
2. That I was his partner in the concern of Messers Lekhraj Shewakram at Calcutta.
3. That some 8 years ago, he and I were passing by a place where a Sadhu was saying that he could initiate any one into a scret provided he paid him a handsome sum. That there-after Lekhraj used to visit this Sadhu and in a few days he withdrew from his account a sum of Rs 10,000. That thereafter he gave up his connection with business.
4. That Lekhraj always lived a very luxurious life and is a very clever man.
5. That I know it for a fact that he did not live a pure moral life.

Sd/- Shewakram Khubanchand
Deponent.
Identified by
G.J. Waswani
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post13 Aug 2014

Oh, it's worth noting that such books and documents held in public or educational collection have a habit of "disappearing".
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post14 Aug 2014

Rajneesh - The other is these Brahma Kumaris.....They talk utter nonsense, and they talk with authority.


I can verify the authenticity of these opinions. When I was in Madhuban one year, we were visited by a wandering Western hippy. Of course we all wanted to ‘do service’ and befriended him.

It turned out he was a follower of Rajneesh and indeed on subsequent days he wore their well-known orange clothes and the mala with Rajneesh’s photo.

Discussing with him over chai, we asked him if their group knew about the BKs and if so, what did they know. He replied in almost exactly the terms above. He put it as ”Well, the Bhagwan says the BKs speak nonsense but with complete conviction”. He also commented on Sai Baba, saying what Osho’s opinion was about Sai Baba’s ability to manifest swiss watches - ”either he is doing sleight of hand magic tricks, or he is abusing some occult power to steal them (because they are branded Rolex and Omega watches!). This ‘sanyassin’ - as they called themselves - was even given permission to attend an Avyakt Murli and was presented to BapDada for dristi (whereas most BKs have to wait a year and get permission from their zone in charge). Asked by many of his experience, he was unimpressed ”nothing special”. (In case you are wondering what BapDada said to him, I remember it was something like ‘you have now left the path of Bhakti and found the path og Gyan - etc etc)
ex-l: BKism became as it is not from within but from outside influences condemning it

As to the shenanigans going on in the early Om Mandli with baths and sensuosity not normal in that society and culture - what do the PBKs think of that behaviour? I ask because they seem to imply that the early years were when the BKs were true to ”god’s” calling and only later they became corrupted
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post14 Aug 2014

It appears the big scandal that neither the BKs nor the PBKs will speaking openly about is that the leader of the PBKs, Virendra Dev Dixit, made love or had sex to the original PBK Sisters and, specifically, that the proof of his divinity was that none of them became pregnant. That Virendra Dev Dixit played Krishna to their Gopis and took a Mama of his own.

Their position is, approximately, that the beginning of BKism and PBKism must mirror each other in order to be authentic, including the founders being the "lusty thorn" ... the "most impure man" ... mentioned in the Murlis.

But, yes, it throws up all sort of other paradoxes and contradictions.

Does it not suggest that the sensual and free era of the Om Mandli was the movement's Golden Age and the rest is it decline?

(The PBKs point a finger at the "India" of the BKWSU having been invaded by a, metaphorically speaking, "Islamic" fundamentalist sect, typified by the Dadis that rule it now).
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post14 Aug 2014

OM MANDLI: A true authenticated story about its activities being a reply to "Is This Justice?" (1940) by Bhaibund Om Mandli Committee.

This whole document posted by ex-l suggests that Om Mandli was more like a brothel & I think brahmakumaris developed from this Mandli (???). Whosoever was Om Radhe & her boss Lekhraj, both were not different than sluts & their owner. But if you compare sluts with them, it will come out that sluts are better as what they do is open to everyone & at least they do not defame religions.

Several cases (given in this document) describing real experiences of girls trapped there are so awful, all followers must introspect about them & definitely ask questions regarding same from their teacher at centers. [May be all Malicious activities would again be defined as something divine].

What is more appalling about whole cult belief is that they are defaming Lord Krishna who was Vasudev & such a pure soul, his celibacy is considered to be highest & unparalleled but this evil crooks have just maligned everything. Who will believe in a religion if it is projected by such cheap & evil giants.

This document should reach every current follower of BKism so that they all can re evaluate their decision to continue with the path they have opted.

And those who already know about all this but still follow BKism, I feel sorry for them & am really puzzled as how anyone can refuse to see reality amidst such naked facts which are their with proofs.
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post14 Aug 2014

I'd strongly disagree with the use of the word "sluts" and I do not think of it like a brothel. However, if we look at the Murlis as being metaphorical views of what was happening in the Brahma Kumari movement, the Lekhraj Kirpalani or god spirit of BKism *does* call it a brothel. There are many such quotes as, "Bharat has become a brothel ... the temples have become brothels".

The BKs, in their vanity and narcissism, think that such utterances apply to the outside world. PBKs being more humble and introspective consider that they apply metaphorically only to the BK world. Hence their god was saying the BK world and centres had become brothels. That is true.

I appreciate English is not your first language but "slut" is basically a misogynistic word which exhibits hatred, dislike or mistrust of women ... especially sexually liberated and empowered women. I don't think that is the correct assumption. The women were victims to the mesmeric Krishna God Lekhraj Kirpalani. He was their God. Many, from the witness statements, were uncomfortable with what was going on.

I think of it more like a commune.

I think it just far more perfectly fits into the archetypal mould of cult and cult leader taking advantage of many young women when he had his own wife and young family. Remember, Lekhraj Kirpalani was sexually active right up until the start of the Om Mandli.

Lekhraj Kirpalani was exceptionally rich, handsome (they say), intelligent and charismatic. He was their liberator and was, obviously, liberating them even further. It is said in the book he only chose the pretty ones to be his closest, some already married.

It was scandalous. It would still be scandalous in India today. That is why society reacted against them, not as the BKs lie ... that it was because of their purity. They had an entirely different concept of purity then ... they could do anything and it was pure, including these things.

Rather than "purity", you might say 'conscience free'.

Personally, I think sexually empowered women are wonderful and think every women should be free to experience love, sex and physically express her passion without such jealous and hateful misogyny, let alone having to marry one man for the whole of their life.

Many men are frightened of women's sexual power, abilities, and appetites, and weak in comparison. They desire to suppress it ... why, I have no idea. Jealousy, insecurity and small pee-pees I suppose.

I would say Lekhraj Kirpalani was encouraging as a way of bonding them to him ... e.g. on top of the bathing, eating, sleeping and lying around together, they often had wild dances at midnight on the beach at Clifton in Karachi. They dressed up as Krishna and Gopis to party, and evoked that highly erotic and passionate Bhakti tradition for women. The women's trances then where far more ecstatic and extraordinary than they are now ... e.g. children would be sent into trance for days and live in an altered fantasy world.

The Brahma Kumaris had to learn to play it all down due to the condemnation they received ... and the like of Dadi Janki knows all about this but kept it all hidden for decades and even now distracts adherents from the truth.\

I would argue that the strictness, straight and discipline of BKism really came from outside the movement, not within just as much as so many of the concepts and so much of the language and even the uniform, their saris, did.
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post15 Aug 2014

ex-l wrote:I think of it more like a hippie commune.

Actually, I think I will withdraw that and say, "more like half way between a commune and Lekhraj Kirpalani's own personal harem" ... following the departure of various more strict individuals within the group.

It appears the whole "God Brahma" "Creator and Seed of Humanity" thing went to Lekhraj Kirpalani's head for 20 odd years or so.

What it does though, from am academic point of view, is rolls back the date for the start of what are known as "New Religious Movements" to the 1930s, as Lekhraj Kirpalani's satsang so perfectly fits into the analytical model we have now come to accept as a cult.

The Brahma Kumaris believe and teach their adherents that all of Hinduism is a memorial of their religion and the events of the Confluence Age. Hinduism is full of lusty stories of Krishna's passion for his gopis. Is it not, therefore logical that those stories must have had some roots in real events of the Confluence Age ... flirting with them, removing their clothes, kissing them, embracing them, "leaving lover's nail marks in their breasts" etc.

Those are the memorial of last Confluence Age, are they not?

Now we know there was no God Shiva until after 1955, so for 20 years or more Lekhraj Kirpalani was their Krishna alone. That's a very long time to play god to your own private harem waiting for the world to End on the top of a mountain.
Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Eight Criteria for Thought Reform

Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.

Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.

Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.

Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.

Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.

Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating cliches, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.

Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.

Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post15 Aug 2014

ex-l wrote:I appreciate English is not your first language but "slut" is basically a misogynistic word which exhibits hatred, dislike or mistrust of women ... especially sexually liberated and empowered women.

Yes, you are right. It's not my first language & if "slut" exactly means what you have described then probably I was wrong in using it.
... the Lekhraj Kirpalani or god spirit of BKism *does* call it a brothel. There are many such quotes as, "Bharat has become a brothel ... the temples have become brothels".

India celebrated its 15th August today & I think this statement is just a big disgrace. I think all such things are still under cover, hardly anyone knows that BKism involves all such malicious activities & comments. It is sad though that the country which provides everything to this cult, irrespective of what they say about it, gets such respect from them.
PBKs being more humble and introspective consider that they apply metaphorically only to the BK world. Hence their god was saying the BK world and centres had become brothels. That is true.

Yes, that's right but does it apply for current BKism too, it cannot be said with full conviction though external projections like meetings of BK leader & VIPs may involve similar activities. They may be telling the VIPs that do whatever you want, it will keep you free from sins. Even concept of contact soul is weird. Most of them were not very ethical. Who knows what goes on internally there even today? But one thing is clear that it hass a dark & very annoying history.

And PBKs appear better & more sorted than BKs. The clear speech of Rajneesh in first post suggests that. Even he was so precise about his prediction as kmanaveen said.
they often had wild dances at midnight on the beach at Clifton in Karachi.They dressed up as Krishna and Gopis to party, and evoked that highly erotic and passionate Bhakti tradition for women

Ha ha ha. That's interesting, what kind of bhatti it was? What a purity, dhundhtey reh jaogay! But ex-l pointed it right , it's conscience free purity. That is their language in Bhakti, that's why they see whole world with this perception. May God save everyone from their secret Bhakti sessions.
The women's trances then where far more ecstatic and extraordinary than they are now ... e.g. children would be sent into trance for days and live in an altered fantasy world.

This is the reason why public opposed them. Hypnotism is old art ... actually it should not be called art as that would condemn all remaining art by putting all under same tag. This kind of hypnotism was prevalent in India before 2000 approx. Many cases of theft & daylight robbery were reported in which some conman or thug in attire of sadhoos or yogis used to visit homes for alms during noon when the males are out for work. They hypnotised the innocent housewives & rob their luxuries. So, it is similar to the event you mentioned but it is different as thugs used to leave home as soon as possible unlike ...

So, its clear that Lekhraj possessed power of hypnotism & nothing else & he misused it.

But why people are not able to see this, it's so directly visible.
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post15 Aug 2014

Save Innocents wrote:Hypnotism is old art ... actually it should not be called art as that would condemn all remaining art by putting all under same tag. This kind of hypnotism was prevalent in India before 2000 approx. Many cases of theft & daylight robbery were reported in which some conman or thug in attire of sadhoos or yogis used to visit homes for alms during noon when the males are out for work. They hypnotised the innocent housewives & rob their luxuries. So, it is similar to the event you mentioned but it is different as thugs used to leave home as soon as possible unlike ...

That's very interesting.

What we know from both from the BKs' teachings and confirmed by court affidavits is that Lekhraj Kirpalani spent a fortune to learn some spiritualistic art from a Bengal saddhu and paid a fortune to do so. ANd that after the event he was deeply changed and soon after suffered some kind of breakdown.

That he paid a fortune to do so suggests to me it was neither a high art nor was its teacher.

It could be that he learn hypnotism from such a sect ... I know in India you have sects of beggars, saddhus or conmen some with their specific magic of siddhi. Connaught Square used to attract them to prey on the Westerners travellers when they arrived in India.

Possibly he was hypnotised to think he was Krishna and learned hypnotism to control the young women, possibly he witnessed such hypnotism shows and wanted a bit of the action, and possibly the rest of BKism is the gradual development of that mixed up with whatever religious components they have borrowed or stolen from other religions to make their activities look respectable. That could explain part of it but not all of it I think.

The important thing to remember that right through all the most important parts of their history ... there was no God Shiva. It was just God Prajapati Brahma, aka Krishna, aka Lekhraj Kirpalani. The BKs version of history is deliberately false to hide the truth and the real events, and manipulate outsiders.
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post22 Aug 2014

ex-l wrote:What we know from both from the BKs' teachings and confirmed by court affidavits is that Lekhraj Kirpalani spent a fortune to learn some spiritualistic art from a Bengal saddhu and paid a fortune to do so. And that after the event he was deeply changed and soon after suffered some kind of breakdown.

Yes, it is possible really as well as virtually by acting or doing drama.

What kind of breakdown it was, it must be the effect of the witchcraft on him which he learnt from that bengali Baba. Anything evil to be used on others cast its effect first on one who possess it. He payed Rs10000 to learn that which would be equivalent or greater than $1,00,000 currently. But he earned more than what he spend. And no spiritually good things occurred otherwise he would have never molested ....

Main issue is, even if brahmakumaris want to run their institution, where is the problem in accepting that all such things were there in past but now they want to change & do good to society? It would defame them at most. But sincere followers would still follow. I think what prevents them from declaring these facts is their deep seated greed for fame, luxury & money. And also if they would tell the truth, their whole belief will get crippled leaving no basis of their survival. And that would again bring their beggary phase which they just hate ....
The important thing to remember that right through all the most important parts of their history ... there was no God Shiva. It was just God Prajapati Brahma, aka Krishna, aka Lekhraj Kirpalani. The BKs version of history is deliberately false to hide the truth and the real events, and manipulate outsiders.

See the main motive of BKWSU at present is to accumulate more & more money. That is possible if they hook up more followers. And how would they to attract followers is the base of all their strategies.

In a country like India where religion connects everyone, they used the weapon of religion by declaring themselves to be owner of whole religious system. Then they further expanded to cover up shaivism. Christianity & Islam was included because most of the West countries & Asian countries have majority of respective religious belief. At last they found that it is safe to cover up all religions leaving nothing or no belief. Why did they allow few Western BKs in past to marry? Because they cannot oppose it fully there as that is no such custom in Western countries ... most of them would have never heard of brahmacharya or adopting celibacy except the religious people.

But see the recent changes in their system, they have started modifying to raise its appeal. Counseling, business consultancy, meditation cum medical services (free only for followers, but its also paid in some other form), organizing conferences in schools,colleges & universities, inreasing quatity of weekly served halva, etc etc are added by saying that their Baba is organizing conferences, want to teach everyone, blah blah blah .... why this Baba finds it remain at peace in wherever he usually live. Why is he trying to interrupt the peace .... oh wait, actually it's not Baba (more appropriately Lekhraj, not Shiva or Brahma) as he is gone forever. And now the legacy he established is ruled by the Dadis who pretend to be under influences but its fake & it's too apparent that they lie. Tomorrow if there is a need to launch a missile to save their interests, they will again say that Baba is asking to launch it. Why Dadis lie ... when they can eat, drink, speak on their own, where is the problem in confessing that no one is controlling them rather they controlled everyone till date?

My suggestion to them is that it is still not late to declare the truth & return to the normal pattern. It will take only a bit of suffering to tell the truth as compared to the suffering (if any) you have endured in hiding the facts & fooling people & suffering that will keep on surfacing on its accounts. Don't look at money or the bank balance you have attained after these many years, it will all go as you leave the body one day, others will use it.

Wise up, still there is time even if you are too old ... as at last moment nothing (no repentance for sins) happen abruptly.
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Re: Rajneesh on the BKWSU changing date of Destruction (1980

Post23 Aug 2014

So, initially destruction date was 1972 (is it right?) which was changed to 1987, then to 2000, then again to 2012 & lastly it was shifted also to 2036. But as the destruction theory does not seem to work at all, so they have shifted to Transformation theory. May be next would be Reformation theory & then some Evacuation theory in which they will kick out all useless fellows who are just eating Halva & doing nothing for them.
Can anyone tell what are main points related to their transformation theory?
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