Face of the Brahma Kumari organisation, Shivani, speaks to Mid Day editor Abhijit Majumder in a no-questions-barred interview
She is the young, articulate face of a spiritual organisation once known as a secretive cult. Through her conversations and lectures on television on matters like the ego, relationships, stress, anger, self esteem and meditation, 38-year-old Sister Shivani is helping bring the Brahma Kumari (BK) movement out of the shadowy realms of myth into millions of drawing rooms in India and abroad.
Here is an outspoken, no-questions-barred interview that covers Shivani's journey from a normal, party-going, 23-year-old engineering graduate from a Pune college to the heart of a 70-year-old organisation, and touches upon touchy stuff like funding, sex, and vegetarianism.
Picture: Rane Ashish
http://www.mid-day.com/specials/2010/dec/121210-brahma-kumari-shivani-interview.htm
She is the young, articulate face of a spiritual organisation once known as a secretive cult. Through her conversations and lectures on television on matters like the ego, relationships, stress, anger, self esteem and meditation, 38-year-old Sister Shivani is helping bring the Brahma Kumari (BK) movement out of the shadowy realms of myth into millions of drawing rooms in India and abroad.
Here is an outspoken, no-questions-barred interview that covers Shivani's journey from a normal, party-going, 23-year-old engineering graduate from a Pune college to the heart of a 70-year-old organisation, and touches upon touchy stuff like funding, sex, and vegetarianism.
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Picture: Rane Ashish
Interviewer wrote:When did you get associated with the Brahma Kumaris?
BK Shivani wrote:My parents used to go to BK. Obviously, if your parents go somewhere, there is conversation in the house. It's in the air at home. For two years, I saw the impact on them. They asked me to come with them, but that doesn't work. The more they would ask me, the more I'd block.
Then, for the next two years I kept going off and on ... a function, once a fortnight. I was 23. Then I started going daily.
Interviewer wrote:Did a personal crisis make you go to a spiritual organisation?
BK Shivani wrote:This is a very big myth, actually. Yes, for some people, a tragedy shakes them up. It's like starting to go for a walk only after one has been diagnosed with a big health problem. We keep postponing the decision.
I was an extroverted, social person. So I kept away from BK, initially. But I saw the change in my mother...from a very emotionally sensitive person to a strong person, and decided to check it out just to explore, as an experiment, one step at a time, not looking for anything ... not looking for God.
Interviewer wrote:There's a notion about BK that it is a secretive cult. There is literature widely available on the Internet that speaks about child abuse in the organisation, people drawn away from their families, patrons forced to donate huge sums. What do you say to that?
BK Shivani wrote:It's an organisation where a huge number of people come together with the mission to clean themselves. They come to improve themselves through the practical application of spirituality. It's a journey. When we come here, we are not perfect.
There is a difference between someone who is born divine -- Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, for instance -- is a divine soul. We are not born saints. We are here with our weaknesses, complexes, prejudices ¦ like everyone else. Here, we start working on ourselves, clean ourselves. In BK, we are all learning. You may ask who is the head. The head is only the administrative head. She is not a guru, she is also learning.
Now, if there are nine or ten lakh people coming for purification, there would be one or two who can do something. There may be a possibility that one or two cases may have happened, but I don't know about it. But if somebody is saying something has happened with them, total benefit of doubt should go to him or her. It must have happened. But we tend to look at that one case instead of the nine or ten lakhs who are working on cleaning themselves.
Interviewer wrote:You talk about cleaning. Is the detergent fine?
BK Shivani wrote:That I have to ask myself after the dry cleaning. It's only for me to know. No one else can know. I can be very
presentable and sweet, but what is going on inside me, only I will know.
Yes, initially when women were not allowed to step out, some Sisters had to leave home. But now, nobody is leaving home. You have to above 21 and your family has to give you permission before you are taken as a 'surrendered Sister'. How many such Sisters do we have? About 15,000. Rest of the nine lakh people go back home.
Interviewer wrote:Is having you as the young, presentable face of the organisation, especially on TV, a clever spin?
BK Shivani wrote:It was not planned at all. There's a production house in Delhi. I helped backend for two years. Post-production, editing etc. Then, when BK started on Sony, they wouldn't accept any tape coming from our Mount Abu headquarters.
They had certain parameters. Then it was my role to call Seniors to shoot at the studio. Now, most of them are occupied with other work. So, it happened absolutely by default. I was pushed on to sitting in that chair just because there was no one else.
Interviewer wrote:Does the name Brahma Kumaris turn men off from joining?
BK Shivani wrote:Initially, yes. People go by what they hear. Not now. Today we have equal numbers of Brothers and Sisters. The name is because initially the administration was carried out by Sisters.
Interviewer wrote:Where do you get money from?
BK Shivani wrote:We come here like a study group, benefit, feel like sharing, and finally if we want, we contribute. No one knows what I am giving.
Interviewer wrote:Does the organisation never ask for money?
BK Shivani wrote:It depends. Suppose there is this programme, we have to hire an auditorium etc. We would sit with 200 people, ask them what's their thought, and if they say let's go ahead, we ask them to contribute on their free will for the event.
Interviewer wrote:Are you in favour of transparency of finances in spiritual/religious organisations? Do you think they should come under audit?
BK Shivani wrote:Why not? If you are a spiritual organisation, working cleanly, you should be transparent, open to audit.
Interviewer wrote:Are the young responding to spirituality?
BK Shivani wrote:In an amazing way. A huge number of schoolchildren watch the programme. It's surprising. They are going through enough challenges of their own. They are ready to work on themselves. They are being made to do a lot of things in the name of peer pressure, and then they are feeling guilty. So many girls get into a physical relationship in school or college because of peer pressure, or to please somebody, and then go through guilt.
Interviewer wrote:What do you tell them? Not to have a physical relationship? Or not to have guilt?
BK Shivani wrote:To work on the inner thing. The outer thing is your choice. You can do whatever you want to do, provided you can keep the right state of emotion. If it is out of your free will and free choice, there is no question of guilt. Guilt arises when you give in to pressure because you did not have the power at that time to say, no.
Interviewer wrote:Why do spiritual/religious organisation have this track record of professing celibacy?
BK Shivani wrote:It's a process. I want to climb up to here, and there are certain things pulling me down. The doctor tells me this is a preventive measure. It's not a compulsion.
Interviewer wrote:Is lovemaking an illness?
BK Shivani wrote:No, it's not an illness. In Raja Yoga meditation, celibacy is like a preventive measure.
Interviewer wrote:Non-vegetarian food?
BK Shivani wrote:Food has vibrations. The animal has gone through certain emotions before it was slaughtered.
Interviewer wrote:So has a plant ...
BK Shivani wrote:A plant is a living thing, not a living being.
Interviewer wrote:Just because a plant doesn't die dramatically ... screaming, shouting ... doesn't mean it does not feel pain. We cannot rid ourselves of the guilt.
BK Shivani wrote:It's not that. A human being is a soul with a body. An animal is also a soul with a body. Not a plant. Human beings impact other beings. Plant get affected by human beings.
Interviewer wrote:I would argue -- human beings get affected by plants too. If there's a tree in front of my window, I'd possibly lead a different life than if there was no tree there. Energy levels of an animal is greater than the energy levels of a plant.
BK Shivani wrote:You are discriminating.
Interviewer wrote:The other option would be to stop having plants as well.
BK Shivani wrote:We'll then have to stop having food. Well, as much killing as we can avoid. In BK, satvik food does not only mean vegetarian, but also getting rid of dark or angry thoughts when we are cooking food.
Interviewer wrote:You are just 38. Do you miss doing stuff that normal young women do ... like going to a pub?
BK Shivani wrote:I've done all of it. Also, I stay at home with my husband in Gurgaon.
Interviewer wrote:You've ever done a job?
BK Shivani wrote:I am working. I have a business with my husband.
Interviewer wrote:If you were wearing a T-shirt, what would the graffiti be?
BK Shivani wrote:It would be: If I had the power, I would choose my destiny.
http://www.mid-day.com/specials/2010/dec/121210-brahma-kumari-shivani-interview.htm