The Brahma Kumaris: Spiritualism and Channeling

I do not consider that Shiva Baba, or any other BK entity, possessed me at any time. Although I did experience bodiless entities trying to possess me on a number of occasions during BK life, these beings did not (to my knowledge) succeed. I did not require exorcism or other such psychic help to recover from my BK experiences, although I can well believe that others might require such help. I do feel that I was programmed by the BKWSU's systems, and that this programming takes a lot of unravelling.

OK Howie, sorry, my mistake, I understood you wrong.

What is taking me time to come to terms with is the weird psychic stuff one is subjected to.

Me too ex-l. I think that one deserves a thread of its own.

Hi proy & ex-l, I read your posts with interest and a little nodding of my head but the feeling of unease persists. I found responding to amaranthine's post the most difficult thing since i started posting on this site. While I do not want to sound as if the "men in white coats" ought to be called but i really got all tongue-tied. I have spent a greater part of today exploring with myself some of the possible reasons for such an unsettling reaction to a fellow soul expressing their views on the forum. Trying to find insights into my own mind-set but also try to see if I could get some clues as to why many BK's don't seem to post here.

What psychic stuff were you referring to ex-I? Maybe you could point me to an old thread that deals with the issue?

What psychic stuff were you referring to ex-I? Maybe you could point me to an old thread that deals with the issue?

Give me a day or two to come back to you on that one in a different topic ... proy, do you want to find an old thread on psychic stuff or start a new one?

proy, do you want to find an old thread on psychic stuff or start a new one?

I think we need to start a new one. Where should we start it? In the Newcomers section perhaps? It is very important for newcomers to know that they will be blasted with psychic energy at a BK centre.

I have said before that my wife is a psychic and she is a mine of knowledge on this issue.
She never uses psychic energy, although she could do so if she wanted to. It can be dangerous and unethical. What she uses is just the information. You can read about that on the thread I mention below, the WMC thread. I have recently posted some information given to me by my wife on my WMC thread.

Her main concern, and mine, is that the BKs are using psychic "stuff" while having very little knowledge of what it is they are playing with. Psychics require years of training. The first and most important part of the training is to become "Clear". That is to channel without using that ability to bolster ones own ego. This requires half a life time of working on one's own personality issues before one can even think of embarking on any psychic work. Most BKs do not do this work on themselves, they believe it is enough to surrender to Baba. This is dangerous and leads to an unintentional lack of ethics.

One example - in the centres "conducting" is often given as a reward for good behavior. It should be given as a responsibility of those who are most psychically developed as yogis, and who have the best mastery of themselves, giving them the best ethics. As a result of conducting being given because of seniority or as a reward there are many Yoga sessions that are actually poisonous in the vibrations you will be receiving through the drishti. A channel must be clear and must know exactly what he/she is channeling.

Some will be shocked by this but I can tell you for sure that most of the Seniors and even most of the Dadis have no idea what they are doing on a psychic level. There are exceptions. Two I have met are Sudesh and Janki. They are both really channeling. Although whether you want to receive what it is they are channeling into your own psyche is your decision. Make it an informed decision if you want to stay sane. If in doubt, don't do it.

If you do not know exactly what psychic energy you are receiving when you get drishti or go to a Yoga class then you are playing with something potentially very dangerous. Inform yourself - I can not stress too strongly - if you are in doubt then stay away, some of it is dangerous to your mental health. I am not saying that the people doing it are necessarily malicious, mostly they are just ignorant and not at all ready to do what they are doing in the Yoga classes.

The question as to whether this site is impartial will remain of importance however in my experiences to date all of the posts I have read contain useful information for one's continued development. Even if one doesn't agree with all that is being said one can still listen respectfully, acknowledging that each soul has their part to play and is doing so accurately.

As a for instance, proy's post has given us the chance to reflect on some of aspects of BKWSU practices that are never ever discussed 'without recourse to in-house speak'.

Yes, I confess that the lack of knowing never stopped me from 'experiencing benefit' but standing back and taking a look at the practice of exchange of drishti for instance. It is so commonplace in our every-day BK live's but just what are we doing when we participate in that 'ceremony'?

While I do not want to be shot-down for doing nothing more than lending the credence of an ignoramus's bliss to anything that was said in the forum, I can not help but feel that there is value to be had from the opportunity that post's such as proy's provide us to explore more deeply the mysteries of Raja Yoga as propouned by the BKWSU.


Thanks.

standing back and taking a look at the practice of exchange of drishti for instance. It is so commonplace in our every-day BK live's but just what are we doing when we participate in that 'ceremony'?

This is why we need a new thread on this I believe. Does anyone know what they are doing?

It often feels good and you get the high flying feeling, but what then?

I am going to ask my wife about drishti now. When we come up with something together then maybe it will be a start to the new thread?

The Psychic Dimension

Many people have asked about the practices of the BKs from a "psychic" point of view. For a definition of the word psychic please see my Post Topic "WMC". (Admin - how can I link to this and other posts about psychic phenomena within this site? If you can email me with instructions I will try to do it, I think it will be a great help, thanks).

This thread is an attempt to get some information out, and some discussion going, about the psychic dimension within the BKs. My wife is a gifted psychic, and I have studied and worked with her for ten years, but we are not so arrogant as to think we know everything. What follows will be our opinion and our best efforts at explanation.

The first subject will be drishti - just because it came up in discussion. Please, anyone, feel free to ask about other things as seen from a psychic perspective. We will do our best to answer any psychic related queries in this thread.

Drishti

My own personal understanding of this word is very limited. I was never told what was going on. It was something that happened every time I saw a BK. After 22 years of involvement, i have still never been told.

In normal circumstances in the ordinary world drishti would be very rude, almost a "stare you out" competition. I have never been asked, "is this OK for you?" It has always been done TO me, until I just accepted it as 'this is what they do'. Later, after around six months of being stared at and feeling uncomfortable I dis-associated from my body and mirrored it back to who-ever was doing it to me.

So. How do I see it from a psychic point of view?

The area which is the focus is the pineal gland, which is between and just above the eyes, as you look straight on at a person. This very small gland, which many call the third eye, is the controller of the flow of hormones from your pituitary gland. It is a super highway of frequencies (vibrations). If your frequencies are tampered with then you lose control of your individuality and of your will-power. The type of Yoga I have had is usually soul to soul.

What is then happening between myself and the other person is on a memory (information) level, because memory is not a visual account of events, it is in fact an essence. It is this essence that we call thought that is being scanned. It is like scanning a "Bar Code". In so called Yoga the experience is not threatening and is quite OK, but it is only a connecting with the aura, electro-magnetic field, or morphogenic field of the other person. This looks like a colour which is dark red.

In fact at Madhuban, in the Peace Park, I witnessed six yogis form an electro-magnetic force field called a merkaba which was covering the whole audience and the whole mountain top. Like mass hypnosis, a hush fell on the hundreds of people, and we all gazed in wonder. How many other people saw this phenomenon, I will never know (Both my wife and I saw it, She saw it more clearly than me). It was awesome to see the six individual Dadis become one entity. Why did they do this? I can only imagine that their purpose was to give the audience a jolt. Something happened but nobody knew what.

The important thing is, we did not give our permission or ask for this to be done TO us, we were just blasted with psychic energy. (A similar thing happened to me on a smaller scale when doing one to one drishti with Sudesh, but on that occasion I did give my permission. Well, in truth, because I knew what was happening I implicitly gave my permission, Sudesh did not ask me, she told me. Maybe she knew that I knew). You see, energy just is energy. It has no agenda. Some use it well and some do not.The same is true of the pineal gland. No matter what you put into it, trash or divinity, it affects your own energy. Behind all the stuff we encounter in life, good, not so good, stuff "said" "between the words", said or unsaid, we are all here together.

Maybe we have sat at the feet of a guru or a yogi, maybe we have heard all the words of wisdom from the mouth of the wise men and the wise women. Whatever it is we have experienced, it is still only more "stuff". The only real work we need to do is on ourselves, and that is a hard one. If our 'self' is caught up in performance, Bhakti, or in giving up our energy to others because we do not fully understand what is going on then we are caught up in illusion.

We need to ask questions.

There is a space beyond the stuff we encounter, beyond the red dot there is the ultra-violet. Beyond Shiva there are other dimensions and other entities. This is an enormous subject, and it will have to be treated with respect, and respect itself is something some yogis could learn more of. So, ask why we are meditating in the first place. Ask what we know about the rituals and actions of our spiritual teachers. Expect full and open answers. If they can not answer how can they be called teachers? If they will not answer then why are they being secretive? What are they doing that they do not want you to know about? Ask, ask, ask.

All psychic work depends on this questioning. If you do not know what you are doing, then don't do it. Would you fly a jumbo jet with no understanding of how to fly? Of course not. The psychic energies the BKs are using, knowingly or ignorantly, are many orders of magnitude more powerful, complicated and dangerous than a big airplane. It is your soul my friends, your will power, your life. Do you want to surrender it to energies and entities that you do not understand, that your "teachers" do not understand, that no-one in the BKs will answer questions about? Good luck then, and take care!

Beautiful, beautiful and informative. Will need to re-read but can you help me with thing: I was going to ask whether a soul can unknowingly be a 'conveyer' of powerful experiences to others via drishti (without knowing that is?)

I was going to ask whether a soul can unknowingly be a 'conveyer' of powerful experiences to others via drishti (without knowing that is?)

Short answer -Yes.

It is the without knowing that is the hazard. They may feel something, but not know what it is.

Thanks proy. What if they indicate that they feel something but the 'instigator' (one guiding the meditation) is unable to recognise what is being told of the conveyed experience?

Beautiful, beautiful and informative. Will need to re-read but can you help me with thing: I was going to ask whether a soul can unknowingly be a 'conveyer' of powerful experiences to others via drishti (without knowing that is?)

I would agree with proy on that adding ... and also not knowing that they are channelling such experiences.

It is amazing but I never realised that this stuff was going on whilst I was in Gyan. I knew the and felt the experiences of my body, e.g. head, being very concretely guided in meditations and many indviduals having some sorts of visions or experience that sure as hell I could not give them ... but I never put two and two together and raised that the path of BK Raja Yoga was training me to become a channel for Shiva ... or who or whatever he, they or it is. It took reading over illicit, forbidden, smuggled out Sakar Murlis that the BKWSU controls with an iron fist, to see it clearly in His own words.

Yes, I knew that we were instruments and consciously I had some awareness and wish to be used by "God". I had had some training in Spiritualist Churches before Gyan. But it was only a few months ago that I read clearly in the Murlis that Shiva was entering into BKs to do service, e.g. speaking Murlis, doing good service, along with providing the high powered dhristi that he/they/it does whilst one is, say, on the Guddhi conducting meditation. Have you ever guided meditation in front of a group, A-Bramha?

Like Proy, I think this whole area is a little bit naughty. No where do they state clearly to you in the introductory courses, "Right, well first off we are going to hypnotize you into opening your chakras reprogramme your psyche/reform your spirit body to leave a backdoor open which our channelled entities (because apparently senior BK past and present also pop in) are going to use to fulfill whatever their agenda is.

Now, channelling "energies" is one thing, channelling "entities" is another ... being set up with a open backdoor to your spirit, never to know, question or have any opinion about how one is being used or for what is another thing altogether. But it is essentially what the Shiva/BKWSU is setting individuals up for!

Try to discuss this ... they close the door on you and the subject. Do they know or question it? No, they are unquestioning surrendered instruments to the being, or beings.

Chakras? ... Bhakti.
Spirit bodies? ... Bhakti.
Channelling? ... Bhakti.
Etheric energies? ... Bhakti.
Have a block or problem with something in one of your subtle bodies? ... Bhakti. Do more BK Raja Yoga, it will fix everything.

Have you considered any of this?

They are in complete and dishonest denial about what they are doing. They would much rather spend time sucking up to the subjects of the tabloid press. I have more to say on this subject. I have questions I do not have answers for.

One is what this pressure is on my forehead/pineal gland, what does it mean and why is it still there like the mark of The Beast years after I left ever time I start to tune in to BK subjects?
Or that tickle on the back of the head? Now the latter, from a real yogic/psychic point of view, would be related to the 6th and 7th of the 9 or more chakras ... but I do not know if it is just chakras or something to do with Shiva/BKWSU.

They would say, "Ah, proof of Gyan". But they don't know. There is no real authority or knowledge of what they are signing folks up for or doling out. Shiva, could turn out to be anything. I like what the PBKs seems to say, that when Shiva turns up it is too subtle to tell, e.g. excluding Gulzar's sideshow channelling, so if I am feeling things, what does it mean.

Sadly, one of the by-products of doing Gyan, and I think this is kind of fair as few appreciate WHAT a training it is, that one is left not trusting and believing in other non-BK individuals that might actually be able to help you in this area. More later ...

Thank you so much Ex-I and proy. These posts are helping me to retrieve for re-examination some of my BKWSU experiences. Yes, I am asking these question now.

All the sensations you relate I know only too well from my own personal experiences of meditation. And yes I have been told after leaving the gaddi that my Avyakt form was clearly emerged or this that and the other experience was conveyed to souls. I never knew what the hell it meant, neither could I see what they saw. So I paid respecful attention - giving it to Baba - and went about my business.

Unlike Souls who have experiences that include seeing 'things'; not me that department. However 'seeing' via the Murli - well that is another matter because I know that there is something about that BKWSU Murli that can enable one to have some very powerful experiences. Experiences that can lean one to meditate in a certain way and then ...

I have also had strange experiences whilst with AtamP in Madhuban - Baba's rock and that other one Toad's rock is it? I will share one day.

Nice thread and i look forward to the posts of others.

I hear that in BapDada meetings, when souls look at Dadi Gulzar on the big screens, they sometimes instead see Lekhraj Kirpalani's image overlapping Dadi Gulzar's. And hence the drishti. Is this true ?

Interesting thread, plus the others, Proy.

Just to add, I took Drishti from BapDada onstage at Madhuban in one of the one on one meeting type things, way back in the 80's (don't know if they do them now). It was one of the most amazing experiences in my life. The love and vibrations tangibly poured out.

Even from the moment BapDada descended I could feel the pull in the centre of the forehead.

Drishti Answers

When we meet one to one in a spiritual context whether as BKs or not, if you travel into your body and back even further into your senses and back as far as your place of pure awareness, pure consciousness; when you rest in that then everyone you meet with you will meet with in that place. The vibration that you emit while resting in that place resonates with every human being and you, your body, your mind, your emotions, and your psyche all become the optimum environment for everybody you meet to experience that love within themselves.

The head chakras - 9, 10, 11, - the pineal, the pituitary, the crown, - act like scalar wave antennae, receivers and transmitters of information and light. When we sit with another person we first feel the frequency of personality, then their drama, and then their database. I have never been a spiritualist but I am aware that at a sitting with a spiritualist medium the use of a red light aids the procedure of scanning the auric field for information. Maybe this is a form of quick biofeedback, obviously depending on the psychic intelligence of both parties. Mundane questions are dealt with in a similar fashion but these are the same 9, 10, 11, chakras used to tell fortunes.

None of the above can injure you. It can give you information and the ego has to deal with that in response to the emotions. What does injure the spirit is having someone always on your back, beating your psyche, telling you what to do, and manipulating your energy. If you feel things in your physical body and in your emotional body then where is this feeling coming from? It is coming from the morphogenic field. The morph-field acts like a holographic grid program created by thought consciousness which is repetitive in what we call time. The cycles make it appear as a past - present - future time line. Like the World Wide Web the earth's energy grid can be thought of as a web that holds or links the earth together.

We experience this as geometric shapes, colours, and light. No thought, no matter, if it is past, present or future, escapes this grid or web. Everything has an effect on everything else. This is why we can only create from our creations. We are the ones that create our quality of reality. Whatever your frequency is, you will resonate to that frequency in the grid or web. This is very important to understand. ALL thoughts and emotions are within this grid. So your emotional body must be clear of agenda and negative human conditioning in order to reach the highest frequency.

LIKE SEEKS LIKE.

A balanced person will not draw to themselves unbalanced forces. This is why one can never enter levels or dimensions that are not "Frequency Compatible". We all have a built in security device, a "Firewall". It is fair to say that in my experience very few people, myself included, are free from conditioning. We need to understand how we make ourselves vulnerable to this possible manipulation of our energy fields. We need to give consent to groups that are harvesting our energy for their own purposes. By becoming a BK we are giving this consent but there is "no signature required". Just turn up to morning classes and you will be taken up to a "Glass Ceiling", where you will feel high and good but you will be stopped there. Then your energy will be harvested from you and used for purposes undisclosed ... until now.

"Knowledge" is not ever going to replace KNOWING.