Is there spirituality in BK?

How did you come to believe about the end of the world, whilst you were in the BK, and how were you living with that idea? Why did you believe it?

Just before, or as an impressionable teenager, I had read a book called "Six o'Clock Bus: A Guide to Armageddon and the New Age" by Moira Timms so, in some way, seeds had been planted in my mind about it. It's full of all the usual 2012, Hopi Indians, Nostradamus stuff ... and none of it came true.

At the time, the Cold War was still happening, the Americans were ramping up their aggression towards the CCCP stationing nuclear weapons in the UK and there were many protests against it. CND (Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament) were at the peak amongst students and activists, so world war was on our minds.

However, with hindsight, I think if I was to be honest I would have to say that I was in a nihilistic state of mind about the world and (probably) myself and so I was easily prone to projecting this out onto the real world. I could not see the world as it was, I was seeing my own mind which made it easy for the BKs to manipulate me.

I remember my teacher telling me that there were military airplane already flying in the air carrying nuclear weapons and, as you know, the BKs are full of "the bombs have been made and they will be used" ... and they used to say that the world would get much worse close to Destruction which, logically, meant only a few years of normality as Destruction in the Murlis was 1986 at that time.

Is manipulating people with false predictions and illusions "spiritual" ... no. I would say the opposite of spiritual.

They might be 'psychicisms', which I would use as a term for lower level 'spiritualism'.

The only reliable about psychics and spiritualists, of which Lekhraj Kirpalani and the BKs leaders were, is that they are unreliable.

(* Spellcheck your posts before uploading them, Littleo)

I do spell check now.

These are very interesting memories. The Cuba crisis ... In the beginning, the fear of nuclear war has been more and protests have been more. The hippie movement was about this. But later people become habituated to this and it starts to make less difference to them. It is said Destruction will happen when all forget about it.

But why do you think you have not had a realistic view on the world? To me, it seems quite realistic.

Manipulation is deliberate, but I think the BKs themselves believe in Destruction. It is not that they don't believe but force this belief to others to manipulate them deliberately.

But maybe your argument is they have used the atmosphere and the situation to scare people and manipulate them to donate their money. I don't know. Was there nuclear threat in the beginning? Was there Destruction threat in the beginning?

Have you seen this speech of Oppenheimer, where he mentions the Gita.

To me it seems quite realistic.

That's because your a PBK and have been deeply conditioned.

I think I would have to argue that the BKs heavily condition people, to such a degree, that they too do not realise it.

Trance meditation ... hypnosis ... self-hypnosis ... implanting and programme the mind ... the average BK really does not know what have been implanted into their mind, how much of what they think is their own thoughts and how many have been put there.

Again, this kind of mental conditioning ... brainwashing ... is not real spirituality. It is what it is ... unethical hypnotic implantation.

No, there was no mention of nuclear war in Om Mandli prior to 1945 according to the original documents we have seen but, yes, they were convinced WWII was the Mahabharata War. The nuclear ideas came later and were re-written by them several times, e.g. changing the faces of the Soviet and American leaders.

The evolution of the religion was obvious led and determined by external events and not by "God".

You have said there used to be fear of nuclear war. This has been the case for many. This has been before BK (in your case) and it has been realistic. It has been a result of observing the circumstances and not by someone instilling this idea in you.

Sorry, I edited my reply to you after you posted. "No, there was no mention of 'nuclear war' in Om Mandli prior to 1945 ... but, yes, Lekhraj Kirpalani was convinced WWII was the Mahabharata War". Indeed, they wrote to military leaders *encouraging* them to enact military law and a scorched earth practise to annihilate humanity.

In my case, I cannot say I was "afraid" of a nuclear war happening ... it was a time of a political movement against the government considering such a thing against the wishes of the people and bowing to American dominance ... for me it was more of a logical response to new data.

If someone programmes your computer ... your sub-concious brain ... time and time again to make you believe you only have 2 to 3 years of normal life left ... which is precisely the time frame "Senior Sister" Jayanti Kirpalani used herself and used to quote for others ... obviously, you start to behave in a different manner and start to make different plans for life.

In additional, the BKs added to the finality of a "Destruction" by saying that some time before Destruction society would breakdown and life would become extremely hard. This was reinforced daily from the guddhi, and other BKs. I even had graphic dreams imagining such events (which were entirely false too as they happened in a different place and a different country from where I live now and can never go back to). Obviously if you then allow yourself to think that "God" is predicting this and you are sincere ... the senior Sisters having a direct connection, as we were told ... you take it a bit more seriously.

Logically, you're not going to buy a home, develop a career, are you? We were even told not to start business and "... surrender, surrender, surrender! (meaning doing menial work and often degrading publicity for them, for free)".

I'd like to ask you to watch some of the deep hypnotism videos of Darren Brown that individuals have posted here and truly ask yourself if you can say your mind is free and uncontrolled and the BKs are not just entrancing you in a similar way.

Just to refer back to the original question, "Is there spirituality in BK?"

No, there is psychicism ... knowing deceptive, deceitful and manipulative, illusionary 'smoke and mirror' game being played by the Seniors or from another realm - most of which is aimed at gaining power, property, the adherents' free labour ... and the content of their wallets.

My experience (in and out of the BKWSU) and the experience of others of the nature of psychicism or 'spiritualism', whether spiritualism is a real effect, as in it involved other spirits and realms, or it is an contrived effect, carried out by deluded or fraudulent mediums, it really does not matter.

Basically everyone who has ever serious studied psychics, spiritualists and channellers since the Middle Ages - or even before - has come to the same conclusion. The outcomes are confusion, deception and it is almost always unreliable ... albeit with just enough little bits of truth sprinkled in here and there to keep adherents addicted.

It's either not what I would define as "spiritual" ... or if it is, and we accept the concept of spiritual realms, it is at a low level of spirituality. Psychicism.

To me, "spirituality" would be at a higher level. It would be always be true, clear, universal and benign ... it would not trick or fool people into doing things. It would not need or want from them. Yes, spirituality also refers to those parts of human being and human activity which are also non-physical, e.g. morals, ethics, virtues and immeasurable qualities such a beauty or love ... but not psychic and hypnotic trickery.

In fairness, perhaps that is a more Western, Post-Enlightenment concept of spirituality which conflicts with the backward Hindu spirituality and spiritualism of the BKs in which their Krishna God is a lustful and tricky thief as well as the all wise, all powerful everything (... but I don't think so I have seen the same opinions in other mystic and Eastern traditions).

Perhaps a certain level of Indian society and mentality is so broken and unevolved that it is willing to accept such broken and illogical contradictions; and that is part of the state of mind the BKs are exporting and spreading. Yes, I would agree with that but I certainly do not think that of all Indians and Indian society. And, as we know, Virendra Dev Dixit and PBKs is really only one level up or across from the BKs in all that.

It's almost as if the BK leaders dragged us back to their level of unevolved consciousness in the 1930s/40s, to their big unresolved trauma and turned us into actors in their drama, the same drama they are still trapped in and playing out.

To live simply is also an aim that you construct and define in your mind. According to it you can check how far there is success or failure. Success or failure are with relation to some aim. But i would rather have an aim and fail to achieve it, than living idle with unshakable stage of constant success in livng successfully as mental construct.

(BTW ex-l, the "poetic" structuring seemed appropriate. My favourite line was "consider yourself a consideration!!)

Littleleo,

Once again you mix categories, pedantically arguing the general rather than acknowledge a simple specific statement.

We are not discussing aims and means as general concepts, nor success and failure in general. We were discussing the oxymoronic idea of "spiritual success" specifically.

To live simply - yes, aiming for simplicity and checking to maintain simplicity is "an ideal" - but it does not bring spiritual success nor anything else. It only brings a simple life. What results then is infinitely variable.

Having a spiritual "goal" is self-defeating. Like the pursuit of happiness. You automatically separate yourself from it.

As the pretty postcard said, "The butterfly of happiness will not land on your shoulder while you are chasing it".
Here's a pretty postcard to keep over the kitchen sink.

" There is only one way to happiness, and that is to cease worrying about things, which are beyond our will."

- Epicetetus

If we don't aim for spirituality or happiness, it is as if we are not thinking of a pink elephant. We are aiming for it through not aiming for it, that makes us dependent by passively waiting for it to land on our shoulder.

Everything is result of something. The result contains the effort we have invested. We value something achieved through hard work. Easy come- easy go. Practice is the only tool we have and we have intellect to direct the practice in certain direction and to set an aim. If we don't set an aim, we will not make effort, we will not achieve result. Spirituality or happiness are not different to that simple principle.

If it is supposed we are spiritual beings, we don't need practice to be what we are. But if there is difference between what we find ourselves to be at the present moment and what we would like to be, it stimulates us to make change. Nothing is static. There is constant change. We either develop or degrade. I believe the effort lies in minimizing the loss. And if upliftment is possible, this is also result of some invested effort. If one makes effort it will definitely bring result. If what we get is not what we had wanted, it means we had not set well our aim, or we are not making the right effort.


ex-l,

From what you have shared i can see why you call this manipulation. I can relate to your experiences. I cannot understand why have you followed for so long. How long was it? Due to fear, due to desire for status, desire to be appreciated, i just cannot see the reason. You had said you have thought this is the ancient Raja Yoga, but it must have been shortly after you came in contact that you must have understood it is not.

Although i understand you position and agenda, but i think that each experience, being a unique one, in unique circumstances, including certain, specific people, and happenings, it is not possible that certain attitude prevails. I think it would be entirely in favor of clarity if things are very concrete, because if someone has done something we cannot hold other people responsible, if they are not formally responsible. About your case i would say that your experiences are very much related to the one sitting on the gaddi. Had it been someone else, your experiences would have been different.

If we don't aim for spirituality or ... If what we get is not what we had wanted, it means we had not set well our aim, or we are not making the right effort.

Define what you, the BKs and the PBKs mean when you use the word "spirituality". I know people who talk about the sex being spiritually healing, that motorcycling is Zen, or even how Watching Football Can Make You More Spiritual.

I cannot understand why have you followed for so long. How long was it? ... You had said you have thought this is the ancient Raja Yoga, but it must have been shortly after you came in contact that you must have understood it is not.

No, to be honest, I never thought about it or realised it until I joined there. I did not know anything about Indian culture really, nor that the BKs were really pretty low class or messed up.

I think I was involved for not long; 1 year full-time, perhaps 1 1/2 or 2 years part-time on the way out (I cannot remember) ... but its influence and shadow lasted with me for much long. "Destruction" was only a couple of years away ... or as many as 10, either 1986 or 1986 to 1996 according to the Murlis. At that time I did not know they were re-writing the Murlis.

What kept me in? Probably "attachment", social bonds or friendships to some people that were there. I think that is one way we get stuck. You've never lived near a center, have you? Most of our class were Indians so it was a bit like living abroad, a cultural experience I suppose.

About your case I would say that your experiences are very much related to the one sitting on the gaddi. Had it been someone else, your experiences would have been different.

In my case, that would mainly Janki Kirpalani, Jayanti Kripalani and Sister Sudesh; one of the eight and two of the 108 according to BK speculation but I don't think so. The problems are endemic across the movement and written right into the core of its code.

I would say I would have gotten on much better with a more authentic spiritual teacher/community, one without all the End of the World bollocks; or that I should have sought a more intellectual circle of Indians. Looking back, I'd say even the Hare Krishnas would have been a more holistic bet.

I should not have never given up my hatha Yoga/tai chi/healing work etc and followed my own interests instead. BKism is a con. You just end up giving yourself away and spoiling your life to a degree there is nothing left for you but them.

I would define spirituality as living a life with the aim of attaining supersensual happiness.

I have lived in a center, but it was in a small village.

Have you been to Mount Abu? What was your experience meeting Avyakt BapDada?

If we don't aim for spirituality or happiness, it is as if we are not thinking of a pink elephant. We are aiming for it through not aiming for it, that makes us dependent by passively waiting for it to land on our shoulder.

Don't mention that pink elephant please, I know him well. Every time that pink elephant comes in the room, its all anyone ever talks about. Attention seeker, thats' all he is!!

Litteleo, just a brief question -

How many times in your life have you aimed to be happy - and succeeded, or aimed - and failed?

How many times did you find you were happy, without any "preparation"? You just found that you felt good, arising out of events or moods and circumstances?

I'd suggest that happiness is not an arithmetic equation, and that the sweetest happiness we experience is mostly "unpremeditated", serendipitous.

Sometimes when I have experienced happiness, it has been due to reasons that I did not expect from myself that this matter will make me happy, but it has been due to not properly knowing myself, not because there is no relation between effort and happiness. Ask yourself how often you make an effort for something you know it makes you happy!

Where is the spirituality in this ... Brahma Kumari Chief Summoned by Police?

Please dedicate yourself to reforming the Brahma Kumaris, stop them messing with other people's families, and feeding off those family's wealth and property.

Reforming the Brahma Kumaris ...!!

How could a cult based on superstitions and lies be reformed ... ??!!

May be the only possibility is to transform it into a charity organization, or similar ...!!

It is not illegal to ask for donations. Woman has right over share of property.