BKs about Brahma Kumaris Info

A rare honest comment from the BKs' own discussion forum ...

... I see that kind of thing being presented by BK haters to try to look like shocking evidence against Gyan. Well my intellect cannot really get what's so shocking about it? And I have already given my view philosophically about this in other topics as well.

I do NOT think that the best way to deal with the defaming forums is for BK to start talking about all historical facts with everyone and every new BK student. We can slightly change the way of presenting The Knowledge, removing the focus from destruction, for example (which I think already happened more than 5 years ago, but still at some centers there are teachers focusing on that).

I think particularly the site brahmakumaris.info should be closed, for some reasons: They are using BK name, which is copyright violation and a misleading title. And also I have already seen a lot of lies written there (not everything there is a lie, but a lot of things are). Not to mention BKs are not allowed to discuss there and are banned. I don't see why BK should feel in the duty of doing anything pressed by that kind of people. I think the first concern of BK should be to close that site by the legal means.

They want to highlight as much as possible some information, independently of being true or false, as long as it defames BK, using BK name, which brings lots of views from search engines such as google, and this is just wrong, I think they should be closed. Not to mention they speak in a very hateful way, call BKs psychopaths and things of the kind at just about every post. Something like that just shouldn't be taken seriously.

As usual, the BKs' grasp of reality is tenuous at best.

BKs are not 'disallowed from discussing' here. What they are disallowed from doing is 'not discussing' here ... that is to say, "astroturfing" it with BK PR, or using it for sneaky behind the scenes sabotage or recruiting.

The problem we have had with some BKs is that they are rigidly pedantic and appear to suffer from comprehension problems. They never wanted to discussion. They wanted to broadcast but not listen; and it is a very, very, very rare BK indeed who ever admits there are problems with the BKWSU and the scale of the problems with the BKs.

There is no rule which say, "no BKs". Any BK who was suspended, and there have only been a handful, had their accounts suspended because of their own personal conduct ... just as a very few ex-BKs have.

When this forum was first started, the intention was to create a neutral place where all parties could come together to objectively document the movement free from the censorship and revision of the BK Establishment, and to sort any problems out. It quickly became obvious that was impossible due to the tiresome, irrational and even vicious divisions between the BKs and various splinter groups (BKs versus PBKs) and their division on top of that (Vishnu Party versus PBKs). They destroyed the atmosphere and put ex-BKs off.

Then the official response of the BKWSU was to attempt to censor, suppress and destroy this forum by using legal threats and attacks. Why, after that, should we even welcome any BK who defends them? (Especially when leader of the legal action Hansa Raval's past became exposed).

It's not surprising to see that some corners of the BKWSU still think that way ... and think of the BKWSU as a corporation with exclusive trademarks.

The BKs have a huge budget, countless unpaid workers and volunteers, and numerous forums for their own expression. We decided to prioritise the victims and underdogs; the ex- and exiting-BKs, the 'friends and families of' etc. Those who were unsupported. If someone wants BK PR, they can find it all over the internet, we've decided to go for something deeper and truthful ... and, rest assured, we only document the tip of the iceberg as far as all the dirty, corruption and nonsense the BKs gets up to.

If BK EasyMeditation cares to specifically point out which claims they believe are inaccurate, or "lies" as they say, we'll be happy to look into the matter. I'd say brahmakumaris.info actually has a very, very high degree of accuracy and has forced the BKWSU to have to be more accurate as a response to criticism here.

The problem is, these people never do. They make vague attempt to discredit us but never back it up with details. The BKWSU has prepared numerous responses to try and down play what we expose here ... even falsely representing who we are and what our motivation is to their adherents.

See also, A message to the BK Media Team and more marriage news.

See also, Test for Psychopathy

A psychopath is someone with a distinct cluster of personality traits including charm, charisma, fearlessness, ruthlessness, narcissism, persuasiveness, and lack of conscience.

Psychopathy – like height, weight and IQ - lies on a spectrum. At the sharp end you may well find your serial killers but at the same time, all of us have our place at some point along the continuum.

Psychopathy is among the most difficult disorders to spot. The psychopath can appear normal, even charming. Underneath, they lack conscience and empathy, making them manipulative, volatile and often (but by no means always) criminal. They are an object of popular fascination and clinical anguish: psychopathy is impervious to treatment.

Psychopaths lack a conscience, as opposed to sociopaths, who generally have an impaired but operative conscience. It is important to note that the vast majority of people with antisocial tendencies are not psychopaths.

Glib and Superficial Charm
Grandiose Self-Worth
Need for Stimulation
Pathological Lying
Conning and Manipulativeness
Lack of Remorse or Guilt
Shallow Affect
Lack of Empathy
Parasitic Lifestyle
Lack of Realistic, Long-Term Goals
Impulsivity
Failure to Accept Responsibility for Own Actions
Criminal Versatility

As time allows I might make the case for why "psychopathy" fits what the BKs turn people into or how BKism encourages psychopathic elements within individuals, e.g. splitting up families and the "detachment" or "it's your karma" factors. I think 3 of the top 4 nail it completely ... Superficial Charm, Grandiose Self-Worth and Pathological Lying. This trend of BKs going off and marrying, whilst having an "on-off relationship" with Baba, might even fit the usual infidelity factor of psychopaths.

Who are such BKs being unfaithful to, the Baba or their human partners, or both?

Now, two people shouting "Liar, liar, pants on fire" at each other does not make for entertaining view, so I'll limit my comments and mainly quote the current BK protagonists.

Yup, no "alleged" about, BK Hansa Raval supported by BK Karuna Shetty, BK Ray Bhatt and others started legal action against brahmakumaris.info and lost thanks to the support of the ex-BK community and friends who had suffered from their interference in their family lives. There is no copyright or trademark infringement because we are not passing off ourselves off as Brahma Kumaris (God forbid), we just provide information about them.

Funnily enough, BK EasyMeditation, this will show you

how paradoxical this entire business is
how uninformed you are
how the BKWSU keeps covering up inconvenient truths, and
how BKs keep repeating their misinformation

because it was Hansa Raval that started the legal action *because* she was reported as "kook" for claiming BKism could cure cancer.

Now, please remove your accusation of us "lying" over the issue.

If the BKWSU has *STOPPED* claiming so, it is probably because of us here making an issue of it ... just as it tried to stop adherents claiming Dadi Janki was "the most stable mind in the world", a claim which also arose in Tex-ass.

During a seminar in Oklahoma City in the 1980s, a San Antonio, Texas, US Army cancer specialist, Dr. Col. Hansa Raval, M.D., said, “A cure for cancer exists through the use of Yoga. But physicians refused to acknowledge the cure.”

The specialist said she witnessed the use of Raja Yoga and meditation cure crippling arthritis, headaches and even cancer.

And even though Raval offers proof, which she said was collected during two years of study at the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University in India, she has been dismissed by other members of the medical profession as a kook

Post subject: Re: BKs Response to controversies?
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:50 am

Why not? Transparency strengthens the Truth and helps sort out the confusion - in the past awareness was restricted to knowledge given in the centre but today more and more people are on internet and will get to know these from other forums anyway. Thats why it results in shock for new ones. Best is to address it upfront. Otherwise people represent it as deception.

Regarding Brahmakumaris.info website I agree mostly and have analysed it

1) I think that there was a legal case by BKWSU to close Brahmakumaris.info website which BKWSU lost as alleged by brahmakumaris.info
2) it appears on Top of google search so most of people searching for Brahma Kumaris will end up on that website
3) there are some genuine criticisms and questions like some of them debated here but it is lost amidst extreme opinions, hatred, rage and anger which belittles the purpose of the website
4) it misrepresents and manipulates the postings to appear as if the whole world has become anti-bk seems to be some sort of propaganda. I am sure senior BKs know those protagonists and there should be a BKWSU official clarification on the agenda they are pursuing. Silence hear doesn't help I think
5) it uses sensationalism like using "exposed truth" and so on...though it is merely restricted to opinions from a handful of ex-BKs. Many new comers, family members of BKs occasionally come on the forum, express their issues and then disappear
6) the reasons for the attention that they get is because it gives ex-BKs a voice and to some extent it helps the exiting processes from BKs-as I shared somewhere else on the forum typical attitude of BKs is of apathy towards leavers as they are considered failures- this helps them..This is where ex-BKs find some solace just to see that there are others like them and there is enough on that site to help them justify and deal with exit which can be very painful otherwise. There are those harmed by failures of destruction and it's important to show compassion there rather than treating them as traitors
7) often family members of BKs turn up on the site and its represented in a way that BKism is anti family when it is not. Most of the BKs get opposition from the family esp in India which is usual in India for anyone taking on a spiritual path
8) it bans all the BKs and BK supporters and then claims that it's a truth about BKs - how is that !!! It may have facts but eventually with such smart manipulation there is little credibility of that web-site http://www.brahmakumaris.info as such

That's right learningspirit, the site misrepresents BK a big deal. BK is not anti-family, nevertheless they lie in their site saying so. And we could sum up many other things that they say, that if not just exaggeration and hateful speech, are lies. They are clearly just moved by hate and want to damage BK at any cost.

I'll give you another example of lies that I've seen they telling to newcomers asking information about Brahma Kumaris: They say BKs cannot cure physical or mental diseases (which is obvious), but they say that BKs will tell the person that Raja Yoga alone will cure a disease. That's a lie!!! BK teachers are advised to encourage anyone needing medical attention to go find a doctor, and never that spirituality can cure diseases. And in this way they are misleading many people to have a completely false idea of what the Brahma Kumaris is!

If they are so sure that our God is false, why the need for so much lies to prove so?

But anyway, the strongest reasons I think it should be closed is the copyright inflicting name of the site, which at the same time is a false title, as they are not BK. To choose this name was very dishonest from their part, and for this reason I think BKs should try harder to close it.

And, no, we don't "ban" active BKs ... we just set a very high standard of truth and humanity for them to observe.

"Just follow this camp and you'll be cured".

BK is not saying diseases can be cured they let others do it for them, BK Medical Wing: Experiences - CAD.

This is about establishing the credibility of our critics ...

Criticism is good, but it has to be good and accurate. I get the feeling that a lot of irk some BKs express is just a kind of caste born narcissism or vanity ... they don't like inferiors like us pointing out their silliness, weaknesses or failings, especially in public. They put so much energy into hiding their dirty laundry to keep up a facade.

I'll give you another example of lies that I've seen they telling to newcomers asking information about Brahma Kumaris: They say BKs cannot cure physical or mental diseases (which is obvious), but they say that BKs will tell the person that Raja Yoga alone will cure a disease. That's a lie!!!

Dadi Janki whose status has been built on the business of being seriously ill, even on her death bed, and then miraculously coming around thanks to her Yoga with Shiva Baba ... "Illness: Spiritual Causes, Spiritual Cures".

The BKs used to say that they cured all suffering and illnesses ... but what they meant was that in their 'soon to be' Golden Age on Earth, the heaven only they would inherit, there would be no suffering or illness.

Now it's a bit more professional. How to heal diseases BK Sister Shivani Brahmakumaris RajYoga Meditation, a "scientific project" which cures above 93% ...

We've obviously rattled someone's cage or the BK media team who monitor us daily are going into overdrive (... of which they had better tread carefully because of all the information we are sitting on at present). See:
Post subject: BK.info strawman attacks.

I'd like to point out a typical BK hypocrisy here. They keep going on about how BKs are banned from this forum ... they are not. We have, and have had, BK members ... it's just that we have a higher standard of honesty and intellectual integrity than in BK circles and a low tolerance of their usual idiocy.

The big joke is ... they have banned me from discussing matters on their forum!!! (... even though it was heavily influenced by this one in the beginning).

Consequently, I have to shout across at them from this 'siege tower' as I am disallowed from answering them directly on their own forum. Presumably, I am just too impure to belong to their preciously pure community!

As far as I can remember, we've only had one honest and sincere BK step forward and engage with us about the issue we have raised.

They are so conceited and full of their own importance that no active BK, not even the BKs who have used our work for the sake of their lokik and alokik careers, have ever come back to us and thank us for the work we have done, congratulated us upon it, nor admitted the scale of the revelations and exposés we have made or the positive difference we have made to the BKWSU.

Now, to answer learningspirit's question, what motivates me to continue research and posting? The truth it, it wasn't the all suicides, the financial exploitation, the historical re-writing, nor even the child abuse that changed my mind about the Brahma Kumaris (sadly that happens in all religions); it was when I found out about all the personal financial interests and business corruption that was going on at that time.

However, what really made me determined was when I discovered that the woman they had endorsed to continue legal proceedings against us

a) had not only left her husband and infant child to join the BKs and climb its ranks but then secretly married (probably for the same of a false visa but then carried on a personal relationship within Gyan)
b) was using the name of the BKWSO to do so in order for her own interest in then personally suing us, then
c) despite that BKs internationally, including those in "the 8" and holy of holies Mount Abu, were willing to collaborate with her knowing all that (... and forget spiritual ethics of it, it's at least unlawful if not illegal to use a charity for one's own personal gain).

It was only after tasting the full, bitter, twisted, opportunistic and manipulative 'poison' these 'angels of light' are capable of ... which I cannot fully explain right now ... that I gained the strength to want to carry on with my "seva" (service to humanity);

a) exposing them for all they are, and
b) protecting other people from them

EasyMeditation
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:51 pm

First of all, I don't wish to discuss too long with the site brahmakumaris.info, because the site is too insulting and hateful for a civilized communication to be established. I would debate them after their site changes its name to "anti-BK" or "ex-BK" which would be far more honest names for what the site is all about. I am not opening this topic to debate them, but just to clarify the straw man arguments they are using against my accusations to them ... their arguments are logically invalid.

The apparently married Site Admin bksimonb
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:42 pm

Those type of arguments aren't really directed at BKs, since we know what we're about and cannot be fooled. They are aimed at people that either don't know or barely know the Brahma Kumaris who are still forming an opinion.

EasyMeditation
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:54 pm

Yes, BK Simon, and that is why I think BK should make more efforts to close their site legally. Because of having their name as "Brahmakumaris", they are not only misleading people with false information, as they are also gaining exposure in google for people who search for the name "Brahma Kumaris", which are altogether very dishonest methods of defamation.

bksimonb
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:24 pm

Wanting to close critical sites down is like asking Baba to make Maya stop The Admin of the bkinfo site, ex-l, is quite a charactor. I spend several years jousting with him in Wikipedia before he finally out-smarted me, or got lucky. Every time I, or others, tried to battle or converse with him we made monumental cock-ups. For example, he got left on the cc list of an internal email conversation we were having about him. Doh! The "signal" I took from this and other monumental cock-ups that whatever he is doing is part of the grand plan and to see the benefit in it.

EasyMeditation
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:23 pm

I personally don't share your view that what he is doing is beneficial... I think BK has the responsibility to face this situation and not of waiting for "drama". Remember that Baba teaches that there are times to use the power of tolerance, but other times to use the power to face. We should use the right power at the right time instead of thinking that the power of tolerance is "omnipresent".To question and try to improve BK is surely good, but not in the way that person is doing it, as I have shown in my comments, in a very dishonest, hateful and false way.

I know some BKs already tried (to shut the site down), but I think they should keep trying harder.

learningspirit
Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:37 pm

Out of curiosity, what made ex-l such a revolutionary character against the BKs taking a defamation mission for so many years ... what makes him do it you think?

I totally oppose is his smart manipulation. He has made false claims e.g.the current ones that BKs/ BK supporters are not banned on that forum. Its totally false.

See above.

I don't know regarding legality stuff but this is indeed an unacceptable behaviour and people need to be protected from such propaganda. However, their original allegations and criticisms demand attention from BKs as such- why cannot BKWSU provide an official clarification against the allegations of BK info / other forums on BKWSU web-site? Some wise BKs and others should atleast get together and publish an agreed view point on each allegation somewhere on this web-site till the time BKWSU decides to do something

Yes, please do and we'll critique and deconstruct it afterwards.

Certainly your high handed leaders have done themselves no favor by adopting the strategies they have done ... e.g. the old "never explain, never apologise", publicly ignoring us, and spreading false rumours around.

Jayanti and her obedient minions in the Kripalani Klan will tell you that we "refused to discuss with them". Again that is an outright lie. We were perfectly willing to discuss matters with them amicably ... on the condition they withdrew the "gun" of legal action from our heads.

*They* refused to remove the 'gun' from our heads, so sure they were of victory, and it backfired on them. They lost.

"Victory is assured" ... but only where there is purity it seems. Strange to discover the pure intentions were on our side.