Of general interest

Quote from the Sakar Murli of November 23rd, 2007:

"Shiv Baba comes and instantly begins to give His introduction. For some time Baba did not even know who had come and who was speaking. It was after some time that he realized it was Shiv Baba, the Ocean of Knowledge, who was speaking."

Does anyone recall hearing this before in a Murli? Maybe I was not paying attention but I don't.

Does anyone recall hearing this before in a Murli? Maybe I was not paying attention but I don't.

I don't recall ever seeing it, but it is easy to miss bits of Murli information, unless your mind is focused in the direction of the quote.

This seems to really go against the BKSWU version of history with the famous "I am Shiva" lines, where ShivaBaba was shown to make an announcement of his first arrival.

Once again, this kind of thing makes it imperative that uncut Murlis are available, seems this quote escaped the cutting room floor.

I remember such information. I suppose it is not added later.

It confirms Brahma Baba being "baby intellect" and also that Murlis were only narrated through him, not understood, nor explained. Then also if he could miss such important point - what about us ... .

It is also possible that this ShivBaba that is mentioned in this point and Baba that is said for Brahma Baba are regarding two different corporeal personalities. We know from the Murli that there used to be some other personalities through which teachings used to be given in the beginning. Could this mean that Brahma Baba did not understand who has come and has been talking in the beginning through these personalities and not in his own body?

It also answers in some way the query of the appearance of the name of Shiva.

We know in the beginning there used to be gathering based on visions and trance. So it once more strengthens the idea that very less got attracted to The Knowledge itself in comparison to many being attracted to temporary visions, attractive personality of Brahma Baba and his worldly wealth, because amongst the BKs there are a lot of stories going on about Brahma Baba’s generosity that indicates a certain level of being impressed by this.

So we have already started discussions. Maybe we would need a separate sub forum for Murli discussions, where titles of the posts should contain the essence of the point discussed, that will allow for someone to make his way. Otherwise “Murli discussion” is a topic title that seems quite boring and does not provoke churning at once.

Yes, I have also heard of such/similar point in the Murli, but I will confirm the above point when I get the Hindi version of the same.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Omshanti. Today when I visited the local mini-Madhubans, a PBK friend handed over a copy of a revised Sakar Murli published by BKs in Hindi. When I saw the date, to my surprise, it was dated 23.11.07. It was as if ShivBaba Himself sent this Murli for us, because normally I get the copies of some of the Murlis published by BKs much later than the actual date of the Murli.

The Hindi version of the extract that bk-tipit has quoted above is as follows:

"ShivBaba toh jhat aakar parichay deney lag padtey hain. Kuch samay toh pataa hee nahee padaa ki yah kaun aaya hai? Kaun bol rahey hain? Baad may maaloom padaa ki yah toh ShivBaba gyaan ka saagar hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 23.11.07, page 3)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Arjun Bhai, can you tell us if the English translation is true to the Hindi?

For "some time" read 20 years or more ... ha!

Sorry to bang on my drum but we really need the Seniors to come straight on all this history stuff. Does it matter? Yes, it matters. It matters especially if we are to trust them to be honest with us rather than controlling.

What is so difficult about telling the really story, 'as it was'?

For "some time" read 20 years or more

But we know that Murlis only started to be played through Brahma Baba in Karachi. So 20 years is not the calculation.

Arjun Bhai, can you tell us if the English translation is true to the Hindi?

The Hindi version of the extract that bkti-pit has quoted above is as follows:

"ShivBaba toh jhat aakar parichay deney lag padtey hain. Kuch samay toh pataa hee nahee padaa ki yah kaun aaya hai? Kaun bol rahey hain? Baad may maaloom padaa ki yah toh ShivBaba gyaan ka saagar hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 23.11.07, page 3)

The official BK translation:

"Shiv Baba comes and instantly begins to give His introduction. For some time Baba did not even know who had come and who was speaking. It was after some time that he realized it was Shiv Baba, the Ocean of Knowledge, who was speaking."

My suggested translation could be somewhat like this:

"Shiv Baba comes and instantly begins to give His introduction. For some time (Baba) did not even know who had come and who was speaking. It was later on that he realized it was Shiv Baba, the Ocean of Knowledge (who was speaking)."

(the words within brackets have been added by the translator)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

For "some time" read 20 years or more ...

I used to think it had been just a few years and I used to wonder how come he did not figure it out earlier since from the very beginning it was said: "I am Shiva..."

And if God Shiva had been speaking without Brahma being aware of it, why did He wait so long before making it clear?

I used to think it had been just a few years and I used to wonder how come he did not figure it out earlier since from the very beginning it was said: "I am Shiva..."

I now have my doubts about the "I am Shiva" episode and I think it was probably a divine vision that the Sister had at the time.

And if God Shiva had been speaking without Brahma being aware of it, why did He wait so long before making it clear?

That is a very important question and I think it can be answered with a clearer version of the history of the Yagya. My own theory is that knowledge was initially revealed through churnings of the BKs at the time and divine visions, in this way the students made the prolonged and necessary efforts to understand Gyan, in other words it wasn't handed on a plate as we come to understand it through the 5 years of repeated Murlis and the 7 day course. Which may be seen as a summary (though I don't believe complete) of all the many years of effort gone on before.

I now have my doubts about the "I am Shiva" episode and I think it was probably a divine vision that the Sister had at the time.

You are right.
Shiv thorugh Shankar