The Tree (World Religions)

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Post02 Sep 2007

andrey wrote:the duty of the parents is just this to comfort the children during the journey.

Sadly, it feels like to me that the parent has been kicked out of the car and the children are at the wheel without know where they are going, learning how to drive or having a good insurance policy.
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andrey

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Post02 Sep 2007

Dear Brother ex-l,

Who has kicked the parent out? Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit gives the example of such religions that does not value the Father in the family. Whilst the Father is alive they will like to claim the throne of controller or even put him to jail so that they take his seat. This is the situation. Father is there, but we kick him away (with the leg of the intellect) and like to drive ourselves. We say, "who are you - you are not Father and you cannot drive, go away". Then because you have correctly mentioned we cannot drive we feel sorry for ourselves. Others also kick it out of our life with their opposite ideas, that he is everywhere in me and in you, so it is the same if I drive or you drive. It is said when he has come to carry all the responsibility why do you burden yourself. Indeed i myself feel less and less responsible for others. Also about the BK family, there is someone responsible. Of course, we have to take responsibility where responsibility has to be taken, but we have to also put down the crown where it is not our responsibility.

Baba says that if we are children of heavenly God the Father then should we be in heaven or in hell. If we feel like in hell then there is some problem with the connection. Like if we are child of a multimillionaire we will not have to ask for pennies.

Dear Brother abek,

It is only expression "It could be" etc. As if the only essence is that you have arrived to the idea that The Knowledge is a matter of believing that is not something new. As if you just are busy with looking at others and exercising your language.

Everything is "oblox". In the Murli, it is said "understand" yourself as a soul. There is some condition. We can fail to understand. There are mind structures, games, mechanics, if we learn to manage them we will be OK. If we take "oblox" means rubbish then if we have rubbish in us then we can either throw it away or recycle. Now recycling is popular. Out of the rubbish like the phoenix bird we can fly.

If we are clear in mind then where is the margin to fear someone can stir up our perceptions and take us on a journey of speculation. We will take the journey and take our perceptions along with us. It is tug of war of the mind and on the one side we have sweet music and on the other we have "trash". If we are children and just need lullaby for the mind then it is OK, but if we are adults we have to face the reality.

In the Murli it is said, "you have lost your time in sorrow. Happiness will not be called losing time."

We like the Murli and the programming, if we are to become some nice software. If you already are perfect - no-bug-software that needs no preprogramming, virus -proof, or even if you are not perfect, and does not like to become, no one will complain, but why do you become an old granny that does not like to leave its chair and trembles in it, moves on wheelchair or cannot move on its own. Come on, stand up, walk around, go to the speculation.

Why should it be speculation? The old days with the Murli in the Baba's room when "the soul used to be content with just listening" are not times of ignorance or some wrong practice. No. These were OK for that time. Questions then used to be small and easily quenched. Now when "the soul has grown" and needs proper understanding it is because the time has come to understand. Now who is putting his hands on the ears and denies to listen or locks it's intellect to deny perception. Roles has turned. Now everything that is from The Knowledge – keep it away, like on the path of knowledge everything else is kept away.

Yes, now with The Knowledge we have, now, when we look back, we understand we did not know anything then etc., but who comes to say that we should put the "bad, wrong, black" mark on it. No, it was OK for then. For now sometheing else is OK. Will anyone look at his childhood to complain how stupid he used to be then. Childhood is childhood. There is no need for proper understanding in childhood. Fairy tales are OK.

This knowledge is to build some basic perception of who am i and other perceptions on which "the soul could rest". It is meant for the rest of the mind. If the intense churning gives tiredness then thinking of these matters of knowledge engages us with some other feelings. Sometimes we may seem out of this world, because this is what we aim. We don't like this world, but we don't like to leave it, we just like to live in it and to be uninfluenced by it and we believe it will change. The Knowledge is for this to make the sorrow in the mind to end.

I just speculate with these and invite you on this journey, because this is what I am engaged with and this is where I am going. If we will fall we will fall together. I am not an independent advisor to tell you - hey don't invest your faith there. I am limited. I just know some will seem very caring for you, for where you invest yourself, but they will ultimately ask you something in return (for eg. regard). For me this knowledge is for giving away everything. I need nothing, so it is OK for me. I also cannot bear being apart. I think this is what gives most sorrow, some dualism, confusion in the mind. Or like the continuous going up and down that makes one sick.

I like to reach such place where no one can reach me, where no remark will make any sense. I believe in knowledge, but i also believe that believing or not-believing does not make something reality. It is an old debate. You have said it many times that it is and should be and should remain a matter of believing, this is the magic. And i know that in belief there can be doubt, that's why i like to know the reality where there can be no doubt, but we also make our reality and we need the power of believing even to believe and take up the journey of following a doubt. It may take us somewhere.

For me it is best explained that we operate on the power of the color of the company we get colored with. Mind is like a white paper and what we think of, see, feel gets imprinted. Then if we are used to listening to "trash" and we think it is the only possible music and someone offers sweet music, but we think behind it there is some danger hidden, then we are really traumatized and it is a pity.

I just manage observing people's behavior, the tone, how do i feel, what words does he use, what ideas, facial expressions and some intuition about choosing my friends and company, but although i can understand the nature of someone, then i don't fear. Will he do me harm. I will have good wishes and pure feelings that will remain, i'll try to keep them no matter what and i believe this is more powerful. It is said we should even invoke Maya that "come and we will attain victory". Some souls may seem scary but whatever wonder they may show, we will attain victroy - means we will not be influenced, or we will influence them. It is said that a victorious jewel will never turn its face away from any individual ar any taskl.

There is this slogan "the world may change but we will not change" We should find some ways to encourage ourselves, we should know ourselves, and become our own teacher and trainer, but sometimes we also need help, we should know where to find, how to receive. Something new for me in the BK was the mention of giving, but also receiving - love. I understood i never cared for the second. I still believe it will come and I need not worry about it, but it is to say we are not machines. We are not one way tubes. We give but also receive. That's why BapDada says again and again that we should be careful to not give but also not take sorrow. We can pick from every situation, from our past, or whatever happens. There is also the possibility to transform it in us like in a recycle machine with churning. I believe we are not on the right track if we have not found the happy end., if we have not turned loss into benefit - in our understanding about the situation.

So we have to be careful what we pick up and from whom. It is said we don't need anything from anyone, but need everything from only one. If we make and have only one friend then it is very easy. I am very much convinced that people will not make my mind content, so i have given this up, searching in this direction. It is also some self-respect for yourself - come on am i such that anyone can come and explain me and i can understand and remain content. No, only God with his words and his knowledge will make my mind content and will quench my thirst. It does not mean i don't engage in give and take with people, but only for namesake. this way one can be independent. These are the souls of the sundinasty. They follow the sun. no one gives light (of knowledge) to the sun, but the sun gives light to everyone.

So in the Murli there is encouragement, there we may find support, answers etc. And Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit is here himself to answer. I don't wonder if someone is engaged with other matters, listen to others and then complain for being not OK. Aim, effort everything is very, very clear. Everything is in our own hands.

There is also this period in childhood called "denial" that the child says "no" to everything to maintain its self. OK now when there is no compulsion over your head, no one commands you, you don’t study or follow any principles, no one is mad at you, where have you reached, did you find something, did you find any answers, did you find the secret formula, did you find your luck, your happiness why don’t you share some truth that you may have encountered.
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arjun

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Re: The Tree (World Religions)

Post01 May 2008

Quoted from the BK Section:

154 -156
“Children know that the human world can never be created without the mother and the Father. It will not be said that the world is created through the Father; no. It is always sung – You are my mother and my Father (tum maat-pitaa)....This mother and the Father create the world and make them worthy. It is a very big specialty. It is not as if the deities will come from above and establish (their) religion. For example Christ establishes Christianity. So, Christians call Christ also as (their) Father. If there is a Father then a mother is also definitely required. They have designated ‘Mary’ as the mother. Well, who was Mary? Did Christ give birth to children through her? Or is he the Father as well as the mother himself? The new soul of Christ came and entered in a body. So, the one in whom he entered, he created subjects (praja) through his mouth. They happen to be the Christians. It is also explained that a new soul that comes from above has not performed any such karma that it has to experience sorrows. It comes as a pure soul. Just as the Supreme Father Supreme Soul can never experience sorrows. It is this corporeal who faces all the sorrows and abuses, etc. So, even when Christ was put on the cross, it was definitely the soul in whose body the soul of Christ entered tolerated this pain. The pure soul of Christ cannot experience sorrows. So, Christ happens to be the Father (of Christians). From where should he get the mother! So, Mary has been made the mother. It is shown that Mary was a virgin. Christ was born from her. Well, a virgin giving birth to a child is completely against the rules. All this has been lifted (i.e. copied) from (Hindu) scriptures. It has been shown (in Mahabharata) that Kunti was a virgin. Karna was born from her. Well this is a matter of divine vision. But they have then copied it. So, just as this Brahma is a mother. He gave birth to children through the mouth and then entrusted them to Mama for taking care of them. So, the case of Christ is also similar. Christ entered (in a body) and established a religion. They will be called the mouthborn progeny of Christ, i.e. Brothers and Sisters. The Prajapita of Christians is Christ. The one in whom he entered and gave birth to children happens to be the mother. Then they were entrusted to Mary for taking care of them; they (i.e. the Christians) have considered Mary to be the mother. Here, the Father says – I enter and create mouth born children. So, among them this Mama is also a mouthborn child. These are matters to be understood in detail.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 01.01.08, pg 1 & 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)
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