arjun wrote:In this connection, ShivBaba has clarified in the Sakar Murlis narrated through Brahma Baba that the West would also pay back whatever it has taken from India during the colonial days.
Hi.
I just dropped by to drop off a copy of "Is this Justice?" and I hope you and Virendra Dev Dixit get yours soon.
You raise an interesting point Arjun that I would like to respond to. Who does Baba mean by "The West" and who is "India" ... as so often, Baba or Virendra Dev Dixit means individuals rather than nations when he uses such terms.
If he really means "The West" and "India",
how ... and where ... can a region or a country have and store a karmic account?
Are we talking just material wealth, money, here?
What is the mechanism of intercontinental karmic accounts and are they accurate accounts that take into consideration what was given minus what was taken?
Do such collective karmic accounts also apply between the rulers of a people and the people he rules, e.g. the Nazim of Hyderabad was probably the richest man in the world at the time of the start of the Yagya ... just like the slavery that the chiefs of Africa exploited their people by, that wealth was exploited from the land and workers of India. Do the Indian puppet Rajs not equally owe the Indian people and why are they not targetted? (Of course, the BKWSU are targetting their wealth now!)
"The West" did not take anything from "India". "The West" never even went to India. There is no such place as the "India" Lekhraj Kirpalani talks about and certainly not at the time of the British Empire.
"The West", if you mean the people of Europe ... or even England ... comprised of approximately 99.5% uneducated peasants, (just like the inhabitants of India) living in appalling conditions, with a wet chilling climate unimaginable to most Hindus, with no democratic or human rights who probably had not even walked to the nearest city never mind KNEW where India was. It never invaded India, it never went to India ... and, ditto, who is India anyway!?!
"The West" owes "India" ... nothing.Now, the gentlemen pirates of the East India Trading Company and its followers, a few gentry, the royal family of England, and a few powerful Jews ... now that is another question. They did trade, then bastardise, then rip off what the Moguls or Rajputs and merchants had previous ripped off the people and peasants of Bharat. For example, we are told it was the allegedly Jewish Rotheschild managed to grab the gold off the domes of the Taj Mahal, but was that ripping off "India" ... or the Moguls Islamicists that conquered the Hindus early ... or the Aryans who conquered the Dravidians early ... .
What difference did any ruler make to the peasants of India ... until the English came along to improve things for them!?! Likewise, God falls short here because I cant see what bad karma the Swiss, or the Norwegians, or the Poles have with the Gujerat ... I cant even see what Karma America has with it and America consitutes a very large part of "The West"!
So why should the people of the West pay for the crimes of a tiny minority of capitalists and non-democractic rulers?
Should not the poor get back what was once theirs, what they owned as the commonwealth of the land of India?
Why does the BK/PBK version of karma, and the BKWSU God and SS, apparently reward those that chose to exploit the natural commonwealth of the world and ignore those that chose not to and are happy in a simple, sustainable existence?
What material value do we put on each life that was saved by the British either through stopping Sutee, the Thugees, the introduction of health care and sanitation etc etc etc versus the goods that were taken?
Why should "India" not pay for the intellectual property that The West brought it?
This is not an attack at you, because I respect the PBKs for their simple, true, Gandhian application of Gyan ... I think it is an attack on the poison and ignorance that was current within Lekhraj Kirpalani at the time that he spoke such racist, nationalistic tosh ... rubbish ... uneducated ... middle class aspirant ... IGNORANCE. Political, historical and spiritual ignorance.
Lekhraj Kirpalani was basically racist or at least an India nationalist and I cannot think or understand why a Supreme Soul would pander to simplistic racist agendas such as Indian nationalism
... unless, of couse, he is talking about something metaphoric and allegorical. I believe that perhaps he is. All the same, in my experience, the BKWSU has the stink of Indian nationalism about it (... and indeed exports nationalism elsewhere, e.g. we saw the US BK wishing to celibrating the "Greatness" of America) but, to be honest, India is not that great.
I have a feeling that some BKs and PBKs are making the same mistake as the Jews when they think, believe, or politick for a nation called Israel. The "Israel" that God promised the Jews was not a geographic land in the Middle East so, surely, the Bharat of Shiva Baba is not India either.
The PBKs are a little coy at discussing and naming Jews and Judaism
... I have no idea why they call it Islam ... but given the allegorical definition of the word, perhaps we are coming close to defining the nature and interest of the Jewish seeds within the BK world here. The Chosen people, power and wealth, material property ... the worshipping of Mammon it was called.
Back to the topic at hand though, I have attempted in one short brush stroke to raise a whole load of complex, contradictory issues that arise from that erroneious statement. I do not want or expect you to go to Baba to ask him because the answer will be short and obscure and mean nothing. What I hope to do is just raise an small awareness of the dangers of dumbing down reality and the lack of spiritual foundations to such statements.
Frankly, I think the same argument applies to the Blacks of Africa that were affected by slavery who are also within the US, and elsewhere, being whipped up and manipulated by spiritual, historical and political falsehoods.
We cannot take Lekhraj Kirpalani and the Yagya out of the time and place that they grew ... and just like other oppressed people, the Sindis had some massive chips on their shoulders about English rule, and the early BKs issues with their Hindu brethern such as the then most famous Sadhu Vaswani, one of a handful of India known to the West. Are we so sure that God would stoop to such petty politicking ... or even care about such matters at all? Is Shiva Baba a Hindu God?
And as one last thought, we discussed earlier Baba's Shrimat that a soldier firing a bullet to kill a man under orders would not suffer the karma of murdering that man if it was done following orders. (I disagreed). If this is so, why would a British soldier "following orders" in India suffering any karma at shooting Indians or removing gold? Does karma only apply to non-Hindu soldiers ... or somehow apply more strongly to bad karmas done against Hindus?
I hope that I have not over labored my points here but I find the basic knowledge, and the BKWSU stance, deeply unsatisfactory. Like Paul on another thread, my God is a little bit more of a universal God, may be the God of the 355 Days he is not hanging out in Rajasthan or the three quarter days he is not popping in and out of Virendra Dev Dixit.
Thanks.
(See also a recommendation elsewhere for a Movie set in Benares in 1938 called
Water)