Disc.CD No.233, dated 9.1.07 at Arakonam
Kisi nay poocha: Baba, Ram hee Ravan banta hai, Krishna hee Kans banta hai, iska matlab kya hai?
Baba nay kaha: Ram pehley janma may Ravan banta hai kya? Hm? Krishna pehley janma may Kans banta hai kya? Satopradhaan stage may Ram Ravan, Krishna Kans bantey hain ya taamsi stage ka jo aakhri janma hai, uskay bhi ant may, Ravan aur Kans ka roop dhaaran kartey hain? Kab dhaaran kartey hongey? (Kisi nay kuch kaha) Haan, saari duniya may asuron kee sankhya jab bahut badh jaati hai. Jo Baap kay bachhey hain voh bhi asur ban jaatey hain. Jaisey abhi Murli may bola bahut tang karengey toh vinaash karaa doonga. Ek-do-chaar bachhey tang karein, toh bhi koi baat nahee, aur saarey kay saarey hee tang karna shuru kar dein toh saarey hee tamopradhaan ho gaye na. Un tamopradhaanon ko fir thikaaney kaisey lagaaya jaayega? Seedhi ungli ghee may daal doh toh ghee nahee niklega. Tedhi karengey toh niklega. Lohey say loha katataa hai, vish say vish maara jaata hai. Toh jab vinaash ka danka bajta hai toh sudhar jaatey hain. Bhaaratvaasi bhi aisey sudharney vaaley nahee hain. Kya? Marshall Law lagaa aur fat say sudhaar hona shuru ho jaayega.
Bachhey jo hain voh bachhon jaisi shakti hai, bachhon may maa-baap jitnee shakti aa sakti hai kya? Nahee aayegi. Baap baap hota hai. Boltey bhi hain bachhey tumhara baap aaya hua hai. Maana bachhey utney vikaari nahee ban saktey hain jitnaa baap vikaari ban sakta hai. Bachhey utney nirvikaari bhi nahee ban saktey jitnaa Baap nirvikaari banta hai. Ever pure kee stage practical may is sansaar may part bajaa karke tab sansaar may pratyakshata hoti hai. Toh, taamsi say taamsi stage usay isliye dhaaran karee padtee hai ki bachhey jo hain voh atee nahee la saktey. Is duniya ka ant kab hoga? Jab atee hogi toh ant hoga. Aur bachhon may itnee taakat nahee hai jo vikaaron kee atee laa sakein. Toh atee toh laanaa padey. Isliye Ram ko Ravan ban-na padtaa hai. Aakhri janma kay bhi last charan may, jab sab aatmaen oopar say neechey utari hui hoti hain. Aur sab satopradhan say kya ban jaati hain? Tamopradhan ban jaati hain. Tab atee laaney kay liye ant karnaa padey. Aisey nahee ki pehley janma say hee ya madhya kay janmon say hee voh aisa part bajaata hai. (Kisi nay kuch kaha) Nahee, voh toh shreshth aatmaen hain. Jo aur bi unko follow karney vaaley bachhey hain voh bhi antim janma tak unko sahyog detey hain sachhai may, voh taamsi stage kaisey dhaaran karengey?
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Someone asked: Baba, what is meant by ‘Ram becomes Ravan’ and ‘Krishna becomes Kansa’?
Baba said: Does Ram become Ravan in the first birth? Hm? Does Krishna become Kansa in the first birth? Does Ram become Ravan and Krishna become Kansa in the satopradhan (pure) stage or do they assume the form of Ravan and Kans in the last leg of the last birth of taamsi (degraded) stage? (Someone said something) Yes, when the number of demons increases very much in the entire world. The children of the Father also become demons. For example, just now it has been said in the Murli that if you trouble a lot, then I would cause destruction. If one, two or four children cause trouble, then it is not a big issue, and if all the children start troubling, then all of them are proved to be tamopradhan, aren’t they? How would those tamopradhan souls be fixed? If you put the straight finger in the ghee, then you would not be able to extract ghee. If you make it a little curved then you would be able to extract ghee. Iron is cut with the help of iron, poison is killed (i.e. removed) through poison. So when the bugle of destruction is played, then they get reformed. Indians (Bhaaratvasis) are also not going to get reformed easily. What? When the Marshall Law gets imposed then the reformation (sudhaar) would begin immediately.
Children possess children-like power. Can children acquire parents-like power? They would not. Father is Father. It is even said - children your Father has come. It means that the children cannot become as much vicious as the Father can. Children cannot become as much viceless as the Father becomes viceless. He gets revealed in the world after playing a practical part of ever pure stage in the world. So, he has to attain the most taamsi (degraded) stage only because the children cannot bring about the extremity (atee). When will the end of this world come about? When the extreme stage is reached, then the end would come. And children do not have the power to bring about the extremity of vices. So, extremity has to be brought about. That is why Ram has to become Ravan. In the last stage of the last birth, when all the souls have descended from above and what does everyone get transformed from a satopradhan stage to? They become tamopradhaan. Then, in order to bring about the extremity, the end has to be brought about. It is not that he plays such a part from the first birth itself or from the births of the middle period. (Someone said something) No; they are the righteous souls. Even the other children, who follow them, extend cooperation to them in truth till the last birth; so, how can they assume a degraded stage?
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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions. The words added within brackets in the English version have been added by the Translator to make the meaning more clear.
Kisi nay poocha: Baba, Ram hee Ravan banta hai, Krishna hee Kans banta hai, iska matlab kya hai?
Baba nay kaha: Ram pehley janma may Ravan banta hai kya? Hm? Krishna pehley janma may Kans banta hai kya? Satopradhaan stage may Ram Ravan, Krishna Kans bantey hain ya taamsi stage ka jo aakhri janma hai, uskay bhi ant may, Ravan aur Kans ka roop dhaaran kartey hain? Kab dhaaran kartey hongey? (Kisi nay kuch kaha) Haan, saari duniya may asuron kee sankhya jab bahut badh jaati hai. Jo Baap kay bachhey hain voh bhi asur ban jaatey hain. Jaisey abhi Murli may bola bahut tang karengey toh vinaash karaa doonga. Ek-do-chaar bachhey tang karein, toh bhi koi baat nahee, aur saarey kay saarey hee tang karna shuru kar dein toh saarey hee tamopradhaan ho gaye na. Un tamopradhaanon ko fir thikaaney kaisey lagaaya jaayega? Seedhi ungli ghee may daal doh toh ghee nahee niklega. Tedhi karengey toh niklega. Lohey say loha katataa hai, vish say vish maara jaata hai. Toh jab vinaash ka danka bajta hai toh sudhar jaatey hain. Bhaaratvaasi bhi aisey sudharney vaaley nahee hain. Kya? Marshall Law lagaa aur fat say sudhaar hona shuru ho jaayega.
Bachhey jo hain voh bachhon jaisi shakti hai, bachhon may maa-baap jitnee shakti aa sakti hai kya? Nahee aayegi. Baap baap hota hai. Boltey bhi hain bachhey tumhara baap aaya hua hai. Maana bachhey utney vikaari nahee ban saktey hain jitnaa baap vikaari ban sakta hai. Bachhey utney nirvikaari bhi nahee ban saktey jitnaa Baap nirvikaari banta hai. Ever pure kee stage practical may is sansaar may part bajaa karke tab sansaar may pratyakshata hoti hai. Toh, taamsi say taamsi stage usay isliye dhaaran karee padtee hai ki bachhey jo hain voh atee nahee la saktey. Is duniya ka ant kab hoga? Jab atee hogi toh ant hoga. Aur bachhon may itnee taakat nahee hai jo vikaaron kee atee laa sakein. Toh atee toh laanaa padey. Isliye Ram ko Ravan ban-na padtaa hai. Aakhri janma kay bhi last charan may, jab sab aatmaen oopar say neechey utari hui hoti hain. Aur sab satopradhan say kya ban jaati hain? Tamopradhan ban jaati hain. Tab atee laaney kay liye ant karnaa padey. Aisey nahee ki pehley janma say hee ya madhya kay janmon say hee voh aisa part bajaata hai. (Kisi nay kuch kaha) Nahee, voh toh shreshth aatmaen hain. Jo aur bi unko follow karney vaaley bachhey hain voh bhi antim janma tak unko sahyog detey hain sachhai may, voh taamsi stage kaisey dhaaran karengey?
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Someone asked: Baba, what is meant by ‘Ram becomes Ravan’ and ‘Krishna becomes Kansa’?
Baba said: Does Ram become Ravan in the first birth? Hm? Does Krishna become Kansa in the first birth? Does Ram become Ravan and Krishna become Kansa in the satopradhan (pure) stage or do they assume the form of Ravan and Kans in the last leg of the last birth of taamsi (degraded) stage? (Someone said something) Yes, when the number of demons increases very much in the entire world. The children of the Father also become demons. For example, just now it has been said in the Murli that if you trouble a lot, then I would cause destruction. If one, two or four children cause trouble, then it is not a big issue, and if all the children start troubling, then all of them are proved to be tamopradhan, aren’t they? How would those tamopradhan souls be fixed? If you put the straight finger in the ghee, then you would not be able to extract ghee. If you make it a little curved then you would be able to extract ghee. Iron is cut with the help of iron, poison is killed (i.e. removed) through poison. So when the bugle of destruction is played, then they get reformed. Indians (Bhaaratvasis) are also not going to get reformed easily. What? When the Marshall Law gets imposed then the reformation (sudhaar) would begin immediately.
Children possess children-like power. Can children acquire parents-like power? They would not. Father is Father. It is even said - children your Father has come. It means that the children cannot become as much vicious as the Father can. Children cannot become as much viceless as the Father becomes viceless. He gets revealed in the world after playing a practical part of ever pure stage in the world. So, he has to attain the most taamsi (degraded) stage only because the children cannot bring about the extremity (atee). When will the end of this world come about? When the extreme stage is reached, then the end would come. And children do not have the power to bring about the extremity of vices. So, extremity has to be brought about. That is why Ram has to become Ravan. In the last stage of the last birth, when all the souls have descended from above and what does everyone get transformed from a satopradhan stage to? They become tamopradhaan. Then, in order to bring about the extremity, the end has to be brought about. It is not that he plays such a part from the first birth itself or from the births of the middle period. (Someone said something) No; they are the righteous souls. Even the other children, who follow them, extend cooperation to them in truth till the last birth; so, how can they assume a degraded stage?
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Note:- The Hindi and English versions of the extracts of above mentioned Discussion CD are just draft versions. The words added within brackets in the English version have been added by the Translator to make the meaning more clear.