Hi, I am new & would greatly appreciate some guidance

It is incredibly useful to have someone with some experience in psychiatry or nursing documenting this.

Dr Nirmala has told him it is OK to hug and kiss people as long as it is not done with desire. In the next breath he told me that Brothers and Sisters are NOT to touch each other.

Ah .. but you see ... "people" and "Brothers and Sisters" are not the same. Ain't you up to speed on the BKWSU legalese yet!?!

People are Shudras. Brothers and Sisters are other BKs.

It is OK to have to do or tolerate disgusting and embarrassing "Shudra Stuff" to shudras under the guise of "service" or conning lokiks that you are still normal. But lay a finger on a BK Sister, or flirt with a BK Brother and you will have the condemnation of the Family for actions on par with incest. Going for a walk with a BK to do any but talk about service or get to somewhere to do meditation, is like sleeping with your Sister. I cant remember ever seeing a member of the SS kiss anything, even a baby, but I have seen lots of BKs kiss their assess.

One of the funniest things I remember seeing if when the BKWSU when hunting in the New Age market and had to tolerate all that "touchie-feelie" and hugging New Agers do. They even pulled out of Mind, Body and Spirit world ... I think because of it.

I don't know how it has changed recently but culturally Indians don't really do that, especially between the sexes. You get prolonged male to male hand holding which rankled Western heteros, it is common in India. You might get the same from a Senior Sister ONLY once a year at the Rakhi ceremony. SENIOR Sisters ONLY might even give a shoulder to shoulder hug. But that is it for touching, except what you do in the shower.

It even used to be for the one or twice a year “Avyakt Dancing” that Brothers would “dance” with Brothers and Sisters with “Sisters only” ... And dance meant either banging sticks at each other (some “acceptable” Punjabi dance some SS brought it) or New Aged swaying and waving about being “Angelic”. (Has it changed? God, the embarrassment of it all ...)

So this leads me to ask, how much is he being fed and how much of this is his own doing? disturbed and irrational as it is? I must be careful how I tread here. If he continues as he is, I see him heading for a full breakdown, and I don't want it happening here. My kids and I have been through enough. The fact is though, that woman in there is partially responsible for where he is.

Hard to say. May be 70% the Organization (if you include the literature), 20% himself trying to make sense of it all and 10% other BKs encouraging him on to “make efforts”, i.e. go mad. If he is reading romantic stuff like Jagdish Chander and the “Adi Dev” book, then that wont help either. Its funny but I can look back and see myself in his shoes doing exactly the same stuff with a batty center-in-charge and out of orbit SS encouraging me on.

You have to understand ... THESE PEOPLE ARE INSTRUMENTS FOR GOD ... THE TOP 8 OR 108 SOULS ... THEIR WORD IS GOD’S ...THIS IS GOD’S WORK ... THEY ARE SAVING THEMSELVES AND EARNING THEIR INHERITANCE FOR ETERNITY!!! ( I reckon Dr Nirmala will be slated for a position in the top 108 at least ... Probably Charlie too ... Wow ... You should be so privileged ... You will probably get to go to the Silver Age JUST because you met/heard/knew about them through him alone ...)

We get back to the criminal acts of the BKWSU of not being selective in their recruitment process. Of putting teachers in centres in positions of power and influence over others when they don't have the education, or ethical prowess, to gauge where their students are at. Of literally sending people insane.

CORRECT. And they don’t care because it is all about keeping the numbers and face up. Problems ... There are no problems. Never were. Just other individual’s karma ...

I will try and make a serious comment about the difference between what I would expect a genuine spiritual path and the BKWSU to be. I would expect individuals to breakdown and have to be rebuilt but with proper support and free from any responsibilities. I agree with you too that they really don’t care nor take into consideration the effects of individual BK’s families etc.

This is, in my book, what pushes them at their extreme into the realms of being a “destructive cult” rather than a New Religious Movement. This and the lack of proper procedure or Duty of Care. They act like a dangerous parasite upon the systems and societies they prey. You suffering is your problem, your karma nothing to do with them.

“Your husband can leave at any time ... It is his decision ... We are not to blame”.

Thank God, you can make me laugh. I love the way you bring rational thinking into the irrational world of the BK.

No, he has never heard of the research area that Abek asked about. But then again he had never heard of half the stuff I told him either ... that has only come later now he has more knowledge.

More on the vessel ... he is learning really well, gold star performance on side steping and avoiding questions ... I almost laughed.

Question from me ... "are you a member of the Advance Party?"
Answer: No answer
Q: "cause they're all supposed to be dead aren't they???"
A: "Yeesss"
Q: "So how can you be a vessel?"
A: "Not really a vessel, more like a guide.
Q: "A guide for what?"
A: "Its too hard to explain. You need more knowledge to understand."
Q: "Thats OK. Please explain. I speak to some very advanced teachers. They will explain it to me."
A: "A dirty look. If you want knowledge than go and do the 7 Day Course."
My final comment, "No thank you. I do not think they will answer that in the 7 Day Course."

That's the summary. A lot of humming and harring. Of pauses and mind trying to race to think of an answer. But 3 days on retreat ... bit brain dead. Could not for about 4 mins tell me he did not consider himself a member of the Advance Party. Sort of like a little kid who doesn't want to admit to soiling his pants.

Q: "So how can you be a vessel?"
A: "Not really a vessel, more like a guide.
Q: "A guide for what?"
A: "Its too hard to explain. You need more knowledge to understand."

Yeah ... bull (and I don't mean Nanda). Sure you wont get it in the 7 Day Course. They ask you to do an "Advanced Course" now but even then it wont all come out until later ... mostly in enthusiastic gossip between him and mentoring BKs guiding him along. I reckon he thinks he is in the Advanced Party.

Well, he is flapping around in the water here. The "guide" bit is another mix up I think.

Guide could just mean "Pandav". Pandav means "guide". The Pandav Brothers were the Brothers in the Hindu Classic story called "Mahabharata" that were the "warrior/guides of God" and truth. The BKs call the Brothers "Pandavs" and the Sisters "Shaktis". (Shakti means energy but after the ShivShakti deities they worship in India, powerful female godesses).

So, the Indian Sisters and Murlis will call him a Pandav. A Brothers' house will generally be called Pandav Bhavan (Brothers' House).

But, really, I think he is mixing up two different things here to fudge the issue. Advance Party and just general "be-a-BK-Pandav=Guide" stuff. Unless, of course, they have him leading the lost sheep back to India at Destruction time from Australia. Is he good at map reading? Does not matter .. Baba will guide him, somehow it will be OK.

I am really glad that cleared that up. And to think I couldn't follow it, dear oh dear. Talk about your writhing in agony ... wish i had a camcorder. And I agree, I think he thinks he is in the Advance Party too. When I said something about it and he disagreed, I asked, "did he read that in the Murli or was he told because i would show him where it was written the exact opposite of what he just said". Guess I am not much fun to play power games with anymore.

I was told by my family, I should have been a barrister. Cause when I get narky and sick of the B**s*** I corner people and leave them no where to go. No wonder he is in such a filthy mood now. I think I made the vessel's leak a bit more like a cannon ball hole. Besides that I cooked lamb for the boys dinner ... that might have upset him as well ... this Scorpio Shudra just cannot do a thing right .

do not know how good he is at reading maps, but i might buy him a pair of floaties and flippers as a bon voyage gift. Seeing how there wont be any planes, trains, ships or automobiles. Leaves a bit of a swim don't you think? ('scuse my bad humour at the moment, I am feel like putting my claws (stinger) out a little bit). Meow ...

do not know how good he is at reading maps, but I might buy him a pair of floaties and flippers as a bon voyage gift. Seeing how there wont be any planes, trains, ships or automobiles. Leaves a bit of a swim don't you think? (scuse my bad humour at the moment, I am feel like putting my claws ( stinger) out a little bit.) meow

Di, in the same spirit of Scorpio gallows sense of humour, I am afraid you got it a bit wrong as your man will be endeavoring to ensure that he gets his 'seat in the air-conditioned carriage on the train'. Ask him if he has heard that Murli point yet? I am sure that he has been told - or read for himself - that the 'too late' sign is not yet up. So he is making fast efforts to be on time.

Besides that, he most certainly thinks that he is sat in a boat at the helm of which there is The Boatman, guiding the vessel cross the Ocean of Poison to the other side - the land of milk and honey. You can ask him about that Murli point as well.

Brother really is in a mind-altered state if he feels that he is in the Advance Party. I don't want to be banging on at this point but if the Brother's imbalanced application of Gyan is because of incorrect understanding of the teachings then he ought to slow-down a little and try to focus solely on the practical aspects of Murli. The Murli also contains teachings to help us build a good stage rather than encourage us to drift off into flights of fancy that are of dubious purpose.

And this persistence about non-bks being ill-equipped to understand Gyan is I think overdone a little. Sure there are things that can only be churned deeply with experience (including practical meditation) but the Murli contains many universal themes that any person aspiring to spiritual upliftment will be able to work with; another reason for the BKWSU to put God's words on general release!

do not know how good he is at reading maps, but I might buy him a pair of floaties and flippers as a bon voyage gift. Seeing how there wont be any planes, trains, ships or automobiles. Leaves a bit of a swim don't you think?

Oh, Abek is right ... they are promised the last flight out.

Alternative, you could ask him whether he thinks the center is going to become island in the Golden Age? May be they are going to come and rescue him then in a vimana (nuclear powered deity flying machine)!?! The first bit is true BK, the second bit is my wit.

And this persistence about non-BKs being ill-equipped to understand Gyan is I think overdone a little.

I agree about this. I think it is quite a shock for the BK when academics come along and DO understand what they are going on about. Not only understand but analyse the conditions and effects as well.

The old "you wont understand ..." pre-emptative strike trick is a bit weak. I would explain it to you what I mean but, you know ... you wont undertand so I wont.

But if you would like to do the course so you might understand, then I could arrange that for you. So what, the question begs, goes on in the course that the raw data does not contain?

I think it is quite a shock for the BK when academics come along and DO understand what they are going on about. Not only understand but analyse the conditions and effects as well. The old "you wont understand ..." pre-emptative strike trick is a bit weak. I would explain it to you what I mean but, you know ... you wont undertand so I wont. But if you would like to do the course so you might understand, then I could arrange that for you. So what, the question begs, goes on in the course that the raw data does not contain?

Not only the academics but souls posting here who can converse knowingly on these matters. Not only well-versed in the BK lingua franca but able also to show that we DID study during our time with the Brahma Kumaris Ishwariya Vishwa-Vidyalaya. In fact, I am certain that there are what the BKs refer to as 'teacher-quality' souls participating on this site, souls who at the same time acknowledge that there is only really one Teacher.

Oh, Abek is right ... they are promised the last flight out.

Now I eventually realise why Boeing and Airbus are building bigger and bigger planes --- and I thought it was all in the name of technical and scientific evolution and growth ...!

Wonder who heads these two mega companies? Will they eventually merge into bkair.com?
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Wonder who heads these two mega companies? Will they eventually merge into bkair.com?

Apologies for building a little on Paulkershaw's post and thus taking this a wee bit off-topic - Why not Paul? Possibly under the aegis of Air India no doubt. Some account type would be in paradise attempting to compute all the $ BKWSU, via it's students, contributed to that airline's profits over the years. As for the Revenues accrued by the the Indian Goverment as a consequence of the annual issue of thousands of 'holiday' visas for BKWSU pilgrims over the years. As Baba would say:"do not even ask!".

Well, here we are, in the final stages of the death of a family via the deadly virus of BKitis.

Two weeks before he moves out. I can only hope it passes quickly. The strain is immense. He finally admits he started to feel guilty about being with me, about being in a relationship and tried to ignore it. The guilt grew and grew and instead of discussing it with me as he should have, he ran back to the BKs and fed it. Now he has managed to get to the stage that a kiss is something to feel great guilt about. Even though he says he still loves me greatly, he is still a little in love with me, that I am the perfect woman for him, I was the perfect wife, that a man couldn't have asked for more; it is not enough for him.

Obviously I am just something to feel guilty about and a distraction. I admit I am having a great deal of trouble accepting the situation. Then you get the excuse, "Raja Yoga meditation is the only thing that will keep me sober". What is making him tempted and making him feel so drained? Being with the ideal wife and family or the horrendous guilt and fear previously instilled in him?

This is how they get around the corrupt side of the BKs. They disassociate, of course. The answer I got is ...

"its not about Dadi Janki, the alleged abuse cover ups, the rewritings or anything about that. That is not what the BKs are all about. That is only a few individuals. I have a great path to follow and that is what it is all about."

Apparently the pain he causes is not his responsibility. It is of my own doing. We are not responsible for what we do to other people. They earn whatever they get. It gives him license to break all commitments and to behave in a totally dispicable manner.

So there you have it. This is the result of "The Family Path" that the BKWSU organisation preaches. "Don't try any other methods, there is only ours. Nothing else works."

He has it so firmly instilled in his head that this is the only method on earth that can make him whole and complete as a person. The reason why he felt drained and went downhill is because he had stopped going to BKs. Certainly not because he was happy in a relationship and the fear and guilt previously instilled was overwhelming.

They have every little aspect sewn up into a tight little bundle. An answer for all commonsense arguments. Even though the answers aren't logical, they make sense to a mind controled BK.

We can imagine that Adhakumar discovered, no re-discovered, God's BKWSU where they taught him to think positively, to manage the self for leadership, to manager anger, to reconstutute his self-esteem and he feels great because of this. Added to all that, talking the BKWSU, throw in a bit of meditation with room lights turned down low and a tiny bulb alight above an image of someone called Brahma Baba.

In meditation, Adhakumar taps into an internal quiet that's he's been a long, long, long, long time in chasing; without even knowing what it was that he searched for. And at that moment he realises that all the ways and means he had used before setting foot in the BKWSU centre had brought nothing but degradation, disguised as attainment, and oh how he used to love it. Guilt!

But now finally Adhakumar has an aim and objective. There can be no turning back. He's found his lane, and he vows he'll die a living death in it because all the rest is nothing more than the pomp and paraphernalia of Ravan's kingdom.

As time goes on the Adhakumar's practice increases and his stage starts to get 'good'. The BKWSU Centre sees a lot of him; and his routine changes such that his loved ones begin to feel there is less "Charity at home". What to do before it's too late? Or is it too late already?

ahdakumar/Kumari: "Half-Kumar'. One who is observing purity after marriage.

(to be continued)

I apologise to everyone who finds this post personally offensive, disrespecful to God or the BKWSU itself. However, is what we hear happens in the BKWSU any different? Is di getting any practical assistance from the BKWSU in her situ? Of course, every couple will need to determine whether it is the BKWSU or Raja Yoga that is the problem in their particular situation. di, I nearly missed the offer to you. I was thinking along same lines myself on reading your last post but with a slightly different motive perhaps to the one above. You will learn about soul-consciousness and that can be useful. You will hear some ideas about God that may interest you. But my feeling was, "if you cant beat them, then join them".

Personally, I feel that a BK in this situation out to seek professionally qualified assistance, but suppose a non-BK (di for instance) went to the BKWSU and took the 7-day course, listened Murli, followed ALL the disciplines, turned the home into paradise on earth then went to Madhuban (as a cunning plan one could set aside about 9 months for that strategy, at the end of which time a Centre-In-Charge might be willing to sign-off on a Madhuban form). They come back. By this time Brother may or may not be in seventh heaven. Centre Sisters centres very happy that Bhai & bhen are making such good efforts .

But maybe at home, behind closed doors, there are still some of the old signs that BKWSU students ought not to treat Godly Student Life as a mass-production process out of which we become the Holiest and the Highest. How many times does Baba tell us that we are handpicked? Too many. What does it mean to be "handpicked"? To me, it might also mean that we have to take our personal circumstances into account when on this journey.

Suppose that there is something very real worth saving in the marriage, or if there is nothing to save but in an attempt to dissolve the situation under more controlled circumstances (together with which the BK needs help!), so someone in di's position says:

"Brother, i know that this is sensitive matter, but should we try to establish some realistic guidelines that we 2 are prepared to make good efforts to follow? Personal, and maybe a few things we could look at as a partnership. It doesn't matter what the centre Sisters thinks, does it, because this is about us two. It is our student life. It is our marriage.
It is the love we once felt for each other. It is the help that you need to tackle some of the things you would like to change in your life."

"Brother, we are both Godly students but yet there is a shadow on our happiness. Do you think it is because of some stresses that being a BK according to the BKWSU places upon us? Do you think we can churn about what we really find personally useful in BK Raja Yoga? And once we start to explore those things we make efforts to incorporate them in our relationship? And the rest. We either put it to oneside for a while till we are ready or we see signs that our spiritual maturity can handle those things?"

"Brother, do you think we can try to be BKs according to our capacity? After all, I am sure we are Baba's children. Aren't you sure you are God's child? You used to have so many signs before i became a BK; and afterwards too we both got signs from the Murli and meditation and our churning together that we are truly elevated souls but still we both have Maya. Maybe together we two need to make some sort of pact against Maya and the BKWSU getting in our heads and marriage (which we once were at risk of losing!) What do you think Brother?"

Okay, I know that it was lengthy and incoherent, and I am mad, but is there a strategy that sees some couples BKWSU-proofing their relationships by incorporating agreed elements of 'complicity' in their journey along the path of Raja Yoga? Complicity in the interest of one's Spiritual Survival may not be such a bad thing to contemplate. Baba may serve such souls in ways that we can not imagine.

Of course, every couple will need to determine whether it is the BKWSU or Raja Yoga that is the problem or not something else?

Never be sorry Abek, that is beautiful. How could anyone find offense at that? Sounds like the first sound piece of strategy i've heard. Nothing incoherent about it. Makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, the 2 of us and our marriage isnt as attractive to him as being an instrument and becoming a vessel for all that power and light he is going to emit.

Short note: I was getting too ill. Couldn't take anymore. 2 weeks too long, i would have ended up in hospital. Elvis has now left the building. Well, his stuff is still here but i sent him to his mothers.

This has been criminal. There is no other way to describe it. To remain in the house and do this to a woman and children until it was convienent for him to move out. Well, its not convienient for me. I couldn't take anymore. And you know, the funny thing is, only a few days ago he let the barriers down just a bit, told me how he really felt about me and gave me a kiss. And the cruel thing is, all the love and fire was still there. He hadn't managed to put it out one bit. Just supressed it. What an idiot.

Look forward to more posts on this line of thinking Abek.

Where ever Di goes, i will follow, so we go together! Yes, we are fully educated to set up a Internet BK course.

Knowing that most Sisters/Brothers in charge are full of selfishness and ego; and do not know what they are talking about.

Sign up today! And get the truth. Its for free.

Never be sorry Abek, that is beautiful. How could anyone find offense at that? Sounds like the first sound piece of strategy I've heard. Nothing incoherent about it. Makes perfect sense. Unfortunately the 2 of us and our marriage isnt as attractive to him as being an instrument and becoming a vessel and all that power and light he is going to emit. ... What an idiot. Look forward to more posts on this line of thinking Abek.

Di must save herself and family according to the best way she sees it. Brother has Baba. Brahmakumaris.Info will be here I hope.

... but that is unfinished. I hadn't the courage earlier but as the piece continues in my mind's eye, I hear out of the living room speaker's Teddy P's voice heard to sing: "Turn-off the lights and light the candles ...". And Sister says, "Brother shall we dance ..."

(Somebody said mammals need warmth!)

OS Abek