Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

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annamaria

exiting BK

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Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post24 Jul 2010

Hello, decided to join this forum today. Feel like being in touch with other human with the experience of leavimg the BKs and BK lifestyle.

Was reading through lots and lots of the forum and documents during the last days.

Did stop a lot of the practices quite long ago - like Amrit Vela, offering food etc and do have good working friendships outside the BKs - very glad and astonished to have that after reading through the forum. Also feel rather calm and just ready to live a normal live, just being me. It was interesting, I woke up on Sunday morning last week and new my time is over, won't go to class anymore and it was a very comforting feeling. And so this is what I did plus stopping contibutions and joining this forum today.

At the same time I find myself sad to leave people I spend so much time with in the last years. Also find myself anxious when I think about "announcing" my exit. On the one hand, I would like to just be clear about my decision and not have people ask for me and telling them one by one but then also I "know" that they wont be able to understand - not whist they are in ... Could not really find posts on how others handled this matter.

Maybe someone is happy to give thougts or can point out to be where this has already been discussed? Thank you.

English is not my first language, by the way, so please, apologies for my spelling but the effort of writing in English to take part in this exchange of freemind human being might at last be the right kind of effort :-).
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ex-l

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post25 Jul 2010

Hi there annamaria and welcome.

Yes, it is a relief to simplify one's life and a rebirth. I remember the time when I left and it was a wonder to just be able to go out and wander free from the burden of having to be idiotically "serving" or saving the world and have idiotic Seniors or center-in-charges running my life for me, and fitting myself into their little distorted box.

What we have here that is interesting is a whole heap of history that proves that the leadership has serious lied to and deceived their followers for decades and that this, better than anything else, defines who they are, how they work and how false the image which they is presented is. More BKs need to know this to waken them from their own sleep.

You ask an interesting question. It has been raised but not discussed in detail. Yes, "social stickiness" keeps people in the BKWSU for years after they have 'left' inside.

Obviously, your leaving will challenge a few that like to control others and shake the faith of (or encourage!) a few who are in a similar mind to your own. For some, Brahma Kumaris offers a religious framework that satisfies their mental or Bhakti needs and so they will just be happy to go along with it, but my guess is that most have doubts deep down that is not reality. Either they may react by trying to suppress you, to suppress their own doubts. This is often done subtly via manipulating fears etc.

It might be a good thing to do so just to stop them coming after you to "serve" and "save" you. If you make your position clear, then there can be no questions.

What would happen if you gave your announcement from the guddhi?

If you wrote to the center-in-charges your message would probably not get through to others and so you would need to send it to many to know it got through.

The deception I speak about is, e.g. discovering that there was no God Shiva in their religion until after 1950 and that they have re-written all the early history, that there have been many false predictions of Destruction in 1950, 1976, 1986 and so on, and that someone in Madhuban is re-writing the Murlis to hide stuff they do not want discussed.
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filthy shudra

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post25 Jul 2010

Dear Annamaria,

Welcome back to the wider world.

That was a nice way to realise you were no longer a BK - to just "wake up" and know it.

Not sure if this answers your question about how to tell others ...

Personally, I did not go around announcing or telling BKs generally that I was no longer one of them. I kept in touch with a very few who were real people and real friends - i.e. those who contacted me for who I was, not for what they could get from me, or do for me - meaning service.

I, sometimes, got calls or emails from some BKs who wanted me to do something "as a favour" but it is for BK service - they "serve" me by trying to get me involved again, to serve others - you know how they think. But I would suggest a place where they can pay to get it done, or if they wanted I can do it for xxx amount of money but they would have to wait etc etc ... they don't contact me again.

If anyone, BK or even a non-BK who knew I had been one, asked me or if the topic came up, i used to say that I feel that I learnt a lot but I feel I have graduated. Graduated implies that you cannot go back, you don't need to go back - you have achieved what you wanted there. It also gives them a sense that you are fine with life, and they do not become defensive, it disarms them if they are trying to do what ex-l says, that they are trying to 'serve" you and bring you back.

If you need to tell a number of people, why not compose an email and address it to those you care to fill in, and give them permission to share it with others - they will spread it quickly. You are right, most will not understand while they are still in it. Living your life joyfully is better than explanations.

Forums like this and other ex-BK ones are always there if you need to bounce off other ex's ... you sound clear and strong - may you ever be that way.

Filthy Shudra.
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annamaria

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post25 Jul 2010

Hello ex-I,

thank you for your welcome and thoughts!

I did read through the information on failed destruction and history of the organisation during the last days. Actually I knew that in the beginning everyone took the later Brahma Baba for being God (including Himself) - Dadi Ratan Mohini told this whist sharing her live story in Madubhan and I have told this many others since. She said that they did not understand what was going on at first and that made sense with me ...

Also I have been told about false assumptions regarding "Destruction" many times, that every now and again people would have hoped for it to happen but it never did and was thaught to "live life as if Destruction was not to happen at all" - continue my studies etc. There was open talk about this after class or during breakfast and it was said that they never heard dates annouced in the Murlis but how said and wrong it was that even the leadership seemed to look for an exit of what should be a happy life (one of the documents within the library section is a letter of Dadi Prakashmani, not a Murli, which does not make the mislead better but it would be good to point that out, I find, as this page aims to do research).

I was also encouraged to keep good relations with my relatives and friends - which I luckily did. Seems like BKs in this country have been more careful of how to teach and live after seeing a lot of damage in people being very rigid with the BK ideas and pracitce breaking down and/or developing mental illnesses etc.

I write this not to excuse anyone or anything but to share my experience which seems to be different from many that shared before!

And also thank you for pointing the findings out to me as it does help to be clear on my decision. I have always found Raja Yoga as thought by the BKs a very extreme and dangerous thing as it gives the perfect frame for supression, violence agaist yourself and the perfect excuse when not being able to relate well to others. Just want to mention that it is not always live in such a harmfull way but actually I saw enough of this to understand that it is really to harmfull to anyone not extremly strong and independent. And even if you do keep your own mind to a proper extend - like a did, which enables me to leave before catastrophe - it will always harm any human being to live unbalanced and very extreme - in whatever way it may be.

Actually, it makes me wonder and also sad to see how such an extreme lifestyle was my way to handle some of the drama of my live before joining the BKs, how it did comfort me for a long time of my way, as discipline, a group to belong to, having an aim and most of all find others with a connection to God, did fullfill my needs at that time.

Now, I do not need that anymore, especialy after finding that my family and friends have been much greater support in a time of crisis last year, when I was close to break down (overwork and too much tension on many levels). The BKs mostly got afraid of my condition and way of handling it (stoping meditation and class as I could see it destabalized me even more but being with friends, crying in their presence, walking, gardening etc) but also did not try to harass me or "save" me. It was very very disappointing though and probably that's when things really shifted inside.

Okay, too much to say, will leave it with this for now and take myself into nature instead of staring at the computer for too long. Greetings of love and regard.
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annamaria

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post25 Jul 2010

Okay, need to add this before leaving the computer for a while.

Thank you so much Filthy Shudra (what a name :-))!

Yes, living my live happily is the best answer indeed and I love the graduation answer also. Might like to return my "teachers-badge" though, I'll see what happens.

The only thing is that I live right next to the Center so that I wont be able to not come across people but actually that might be even good because I do not want to start hiding etc. It is like another kind of Coming Out, so I know it will be unsettling but lead to the alive, loving and free space I want to be in.

And thank you for mentioning that I sound strong and clear to you - that makes me feel even more save and clear!

Lots of love, Annamaria.
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ex-l

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post26 Jul 2010

annamaria wrote:Actually I knew that in the beginning everyone took the later Brahma Baba for being God (including Himself) - Dadi Ratan Mohini told this whist sharing her live story in Madubhan and I have told this many others since. She said that they did not understand what was going on at first and that made sense with me ... Also I have been told about false assumptions regarding "Destruction" many times ...

The answer is, "yes, that is what they say" ...

But what we did not know was the EXTENT of the deceptions, how fake all the "official" history is and how much they have been editing away at the Murlis to cover it all up. They are the masters of half-truths. It was only AFTER the move to Mount Abu and after 1950 that God Shiva appeared. That is 14 to 18 years after Lekhraj Kirpalani started his satsangs. And the dates of Destruction came from God himself specific to the years 1950, 1976, 1986 to 96 etc.

But I wont labor those points because you have chosen to walk away. For me, I had to disassemble any lingering respect or illusion I had about them and tend to encourage others to look deeply into what is really going on. Others have also had to make the transition living in or next to center property, some secretly even because of their age and having invested their life into the BKWSU machine.

Yes, being firm and clear but open sounds like the only option left for you. You might want to offer your self for service helping any other BKs leave!

Good luck with your new life. Let us know how it goes.
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tinydot

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post26 Jul 2010

Greetings annamaria!
Annamaria wrote:Actually I knew that in the beginning everyone took the later Brahma Baba for being God (including Himself) - Dadi Ratan Mohini told this whist sharing her live story in Madubhan and I have told this many others since. She said that they did not understand what was going on at first and that made sense with me ...

Really???

How could that make any sense? This story as narrated by a lot of Dadis and Seniors is a damage control designed to absorbed the impact of shame and embarrassment during those times.

Come to think of it. Does it really make sense? There is a logical contradiction in the story they invented. If Shiva was coming through Brahma since 1937, then there should be a document that Shiva existed those time, the records show otherwise. Brahma may be confused whilst listening, BUT Shiva CANNOT. How could the Spirit called GOD, the Father, Shiva get confused in narrating the early Murlis/decrees, if He came in 1937? If Lekraj was confused in listening, then he would be confused in identifying the Speaker as himself, as Shiva, not Krishna. The point we are trying to make here is THERE WAS NO Shiva UNTIL 1950. It is not a matter of Lekraj's confusion which the Dadis and Senoirs have us to believe.

DID Shiva COME in 1937 through 1950, OR NOT? That is the question. By suggesting Lekraj was confused, they think they can get away from the lie and deception.

Only children-like mentality believe in this illogical story. They say that the greatest mistake in the world was inserting the name of Krishna in lieu of Shiva in the Gita. Hell, no ... they have inserted Shiva and made Him the Sermonizer instead of Krishna. Both theories cannot be proved and so it's just a matter of what you like to believe. But you can see how the BKs hijacked the concept from the Hindus. Grow up folks.

jann

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post26 Jul 2010

Murli - 05-03-2010. In the beginning, when Brahma used to walk and move around, his form of Brahma would disappear and people saw the form of Shri Krishna. That vision made them renounce everything.
Dadi Gulzar - 25 June 2010 - Heathrow. Baba used to stay separately to us and when he came to see us, Mama told Baba what I had seen and he started thinking about it; thinking about how he was here and yet I was seeing him up in the Subtle Region and wandering what it meant. Baba understood that some new secret was being revealed; some new chapter was opening up.

Baba also saw that Dadi was being teased by the other girls and so Baba decided that she should go and stay with him. Baba could not stay with the other Sisters at that time because there was a court ban preventing him from doing so. So he lived separately from the rest of the family.

Baba’s daughter in-law Brijendra Dadi used to stay with Baba and I was put under her care. Brijendra Dadi was asked to question me and I would go up and talk to Brahma Baba in the Subtle Region and get the answers from him there in the Subtle Region! Brijendra Dadi was very clever in creating questions. She asked me to ask the Brahma Baba in the Subtle Region who he was as Brahma Baba was in the corporeal world in the physical form. I asked him whatever she asked me to ask him. In this way it became clear and there was understanding.

In the Subtle Region, Baba told me that he was the perfect and complete form of Sakar Brahma down below. He did not mention that he had to become that, he just said this. Later Baba in the Subtle Region gave different messages, and also showed different visions. It took time to understand as I also needed to understand the questions that I was asking the subtle form of Brahma as all of this was so new to us all.
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Mr Green

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post26 Jul 2010

hello and welcome
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annamaria

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post26 Jul 2010

Okay, seems like I that comment of how Shiva/Brahma confusion made (past tense) sense to me, triggered a whole lot of responses ...

On the one hand: Thank you for pointing out details to me. It is nesessary to know.

On the other hand: It a bit too much to digest all in one thought. I was trying to reflect on how I could fool myself into all of this and live like that when I wrote this. I am astonished, sad and even ashamed of having believed it all for so long. But what I need now is being able to trust the clarity left in heart and mind. So I feel that I need to take the dose of all the details of deception litte slow.

So it would be helpful being supported to walk at my own pace. I am certain with leaving, put all the BK tings in one box yesterday, changed "Baba's" picture for my own art and I will find out all the details too. Guess that will automatically take me to helping others in waking up and stepping out, like ex-I was suggesting. Just I am not at that point yet.

All I know is that my heart is alive, I am breathing and I am a human being sharing live with many other human beings each having their own stories. And I feel thats a lot for now.
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ex-l

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post26 Jul 2010

annamaria wrote:And I feel thats a lot for now.

I think that's amazing and wonderful already. I remember how it felt, like waking up from a dream.

bkti-pit

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post28 Jul 2010

Welcome annamaria and congratulations for your common sense!

Despite having some regrets about having spent so much time, energy amd money in BKism, I do not beat myself up for it. After all I did benefit a lot from my BK time. I became a much happier, confident, sociable and loving person, I met very many wonderful people and had countless most beautiful meditation experiences.

I did however struggle a bit with the inconsistencies in the teachings but mostly I struggled with the functionning of the organization, the politics, the lack of care, the lies and hypocrisy, the secrecy, the selfishness... and the feeling that it ran too much like a business.

Around 15 years into my BK life I became fully surrendered in a Center. After almost 10 years there, and as I was nearing the age of 60, I felt that this was not working for me anymore, that I would never be able to fulfill my dreams and pursue my ideals within the limits of the Brahma Kumaris.

I told my Sister in charge and my RCO that I was leaving the Center and was going to live as an independent BK. I announced it to my companion BKs at the Center. I announhced it to my family and to all my BK and non BK friends. I tried to be honest with my reasons for leaving. I do not lnow many were able to understand but I got everyone's blessings. I moved away from the Center and got exactly the kind of job that I was looking for and I lived happily ever after.

A year or so before I took my decision, I came across this site and I learned about the no God Shiva until the 50's. It was a big eye opener but it was not enough to blow away my faith. Logically I understood that if the story of God Shiva coming in the body of Brahma in 1936 was a lie, chances were that most everything else were also lies, that The Knowledge was not coming from God, that God never came in Brahma nor in Gulzar and I accepted to open my mind to it but my puzzle was then to try to explain or understand my experiences. Thus began a slow process of reconsidering and sorting out my beliefs and it is only months after I moved out of the Center that, a bit like you woke up one morning knowing that your time was over, it finally dawned upon me that it had become impossible for me to have the faith that it was God speaking the Murlis.

I kept visiting the Center once in a while and also occasionally attending Sunday class at another Center closer to where I live now. It is always nice to see people I have lots of love for but each visit reinforced in me the feeling that my life had moved on to a better place and that there was no turning back.

I have not announced that officially within the BK circles yet. I only told a few of my best BK friends and a few ex or exiting BKs.

From the time I joined this Forum, everyone here have always been very respectful towards me and I always felt free to be myself and move on on my journey at my own pace.

Chances are that it will be the same for you.
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annamaria

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post29 Jul 2010

Thank you for all your replies, also on the "waking-up" thread! Yes, as new chapter of this life is starting and I get the feeling that it will be a beautiful part of my journey. For now, I will take a trip to the countryside with friends, the wonderful non-BK friend I was able to keep through that chapter which is now closing.

Will keep you updated how things are moving on for me and want to finalize this shift back to brought wide world in steps and speed that do not unsettle me. So I tell the team in the center I am traveling for now and give myself time on making any announcements and whatever.

Greetings of love and light, Annamaria.
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filthy shudra

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post30 Jul 2010

Don't forget to send a Postcard!
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annamaria

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Re: Introduction - and how to connect with you best?

Post03 Aug 2010

So here comes the postcard :-)

admiring width: outside - inside
surface of the lake - breath of my heart
summer water embosoming me

sitting under appletrees, cutting veg, looking into the wood, feeling the ssnd tickling my feet,
finally free to feel what is, free to think whatever I want, free, free, free,
knowing a friend that stayed close through it all and knows where I am at is around,
no "purification" and offering food, just making lunch for me and my friend, I am free, I am free
gratitute watering my eyes,
I am alive
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