What is it that the BKs are really doing, or really fear, regarding sex?
I understand they say (
approximately) it is because any sensual experience pulls the soul down from experiencing "soul consciousness" and psychic influences from their god spirit because that sex is the most sensual or body conscious experience.
Is it the orgasm ... the post-orgasm malaise ... the drain on resources accidental pregnancies would bring to the cult's finances and labor reserves ... the binding of individuals to one another denying the cult's top down control of them ... the chaos of lusts, jealousies and envies sexual liberation would bring to the largely feudal and patriarchal Indian mentality as they experienced during the Om Mandli days ... or a mere conformity with the expected norm of a religiosity within India?
Is their path really the supreme path for all people's at all times and in all places? Or it is not locked back in those days?
Mr Green wrote:All BKs masturbate, many have sex.
newlife wrote:Referring to all BKs masturbating ... do you really believe that?
Yes, I thought that was wrong particularly because of the high proportion of women, Indian women and older Indian women in the cult.
Perhaps Mr Green was referring to his peer group within the BKWSU, e.g. younger Western male BKs?
I quickly looked into what statistics exists for this subject and the best one I found was the apocryphal "99% of all males masturbate and 1% lie about it". Incidentally, it appears that zero such statistics exist about Indian females, I suspect because of the still highly taboo nature of the subject. Most statistics underline that they refer to individuals who "admit to masturbating" rather than "do masturbate" and so whilst sex on the whole in India is serious ******* up, even within Post-Christian societies there appears to be shame still attached to the activity.
One interesting study did link it to teenage depression and other addictive abuses which I would underline, however, some studies suggest that as many as 95 percent of men and 89 percent of women masturbate and so Mr Green may not be far off the truth in some corners, but I would never expect to get the truth from the BKs about it.More
modest but detailed statistics show that individuals continue to masturbate into their 70s and so do approx 70% of marriage individuals. It's not just a male thing either, another study showed that 7% to 10% of females do it every other day and started aged 14 or 15, 60% "admitted" to doing it regularly. They also peak later, with women reaching their climax most in their 30s.
Pink Panther wrote:Look. Everyone picks their nose when it's dry and clogged or scratches their arse when it's itchy. But in our society it is regarded as unacceptable to do it in public. Masturbation is the same.
Jeez, well, I am glad you clarified that deep and subtle point for me, Bhai! I wondered what I had been doing wrong all these years ...
.
Can you define "public"? Are you conferring that all open air sex is bad, wrong or evil; or does it depend on some unwritten codes of consensuality depending on social context, and the human density of said public spaces?
And, seeing that you bring up zoophilia, it's worth remember that our nearest social and genetic relatives are not chimpanzees (
who have a tendency towards violence), but bonobos who are highly sexed and use sexuality as a means of maintaining social order. What Dr Christopher Ryan, author of "
Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality" found was, "
more sex equal less conflict".
This is interesting because it completely opposes the equation the Brahma Kumaris now use, borrowed from element of Hindu Brahmanism, which is "lust begets anger, hatred etc". Their vision, based sadly on the experience of Indian women I am afraid, appears to bind sex with violence rather than love, friendship and affection.
The Brahma Kumaris also equate sex with degradation, whereas the psychologists note that "all the casual sex among bonobos is arguably a big part of what has made them among the smartest of all primates" and that all of the smartest mammals, e.g. humans, chimps, bonobos, and dolphins etc, are promiscuous. This correlated with other research that proves orgasm stimulate and oxygenate brains, and it might be worth looking at the effect of cortisol (fear, stress) and oxytocin (love, pair-bonding etc)
I have also to point out that in the early days the movement had a far more liberal attitude towards at least sensual interaction between the sexes (
especially if it involved Lekhraj Kirpalani).
A leading primatologist wrote, "chimps use violence to get sex, while bonobos use sex to avoid violence", to which I might respond, "... whereas the Brahma Kumaris use absolutely celibacy to divide and rule others". Only we need a better word than just "celibacy" because their division of human beings goes far further than just no sex with others. It involves a division between the mind and body of individuals (no sex with yourself, a denial of sexual thoughts) and includes no natural affection too ... which I think must be even more debilitating.
However, that ...
the subject of Brahma Kumaris and simple touch ... is worth discussion separating because it also varies culturally across the movement, e.g. in "the West" Sisters tend to touch more and have even, latterly, got into highly sensual and loving full body massages etc; whereas in India Brother might be far more likely to be affection towards other Brothers, e.g. hand holding or walking embraces, in a way that would make Western males feel very uncomfortable or strictly gay.
Physicality within the BKWSU also varies from the North, e.g. puritanic England, to the South, e.g. "lax" Australia where BKs, in my time, tended to enjoy nature and their bodies a bit more.
There are far worse things in life than a creature "minding his own business" and enjoying a simple sensation. One of them is making people feel guilty over the wrong things as a distraction from their own more serious 'sins'.
Going back to the beginning of this discussion, from a BK point of view, doing something creates a sanskar which leads to doing more of it. A fair observation from the point of view of sexual addiction. How to stop it is to just to stop doing it and create a different sanskar ... and do more of their meditation (the only "one size fits all" cure they have).
I can remember 'confessed' masturbators being punished by not being allowed to go to Madhuban. I am absolutely sure 'non-confessed' masturbators said nothing and just went to Madhuban.
I cannot, however, ever remember it being openly discussed nor any remedies suggested although I do remember some of the idiotic Jagdish Chander's pseudo-Victorian writings on the subject of sex and consider Janki Kirpalani's exhortations of "total purity" for young girls irresponsible.
I suppose putting a big poster of Dadi Janki or Sister Gulzar at the end of one's bed would be enough to douse the flames of passion of any young man. If not, ask another Brother to handcuff your wrists to the bed at night!?!
Either way, I return to where I started and would have to ask the question why is the individual doing it? It is is just to "de-stress", then it would be better to remove the stress that is causing it and avoid making a habit of it. Far better to love someone else and be loved back than to narcissistically "love" the self.
If it is not stress which is causing it, then may be it signifies a lack of love and affection from others?