How many births do you get, and what birth are you on now

When I first started out, I was told that each BK was on the last birth, i.e the 84th, as this is often mentioned in the Murlis. So hence one had to make effort during this last birth. At that time, you were reborn when you took Gyan, so during this physical life, your spiritual life and thus your 84th birth had come to you. This seemed simple Gyan to understand and so many if us put lots of hard work and service and study since this was your last chance.

However, later, I discovered, as others did, there have been BKs that have left their bodies during this Confluence Age, prompting so where did they go (other than Brahma Baba).

Where some of these BKs have gone have been explained in the Shankar Party thread :

(a) For BKs, there will be some who will leave their bodies whilst there are others (young in physical age) who will still be alive at the "date of destruction". Who has got to their 84th birth ? Or do those who have already left their bodies, have had their 83rd birth, to take rebirth into another for their 84th birth ? Of which this would kind of conflict in that a BK is his/her last (and thus 84th) birth ? Can you become a BK twice in seperate bodies ?

(b) The PBKs may have a similar, but more complex, situation as in (a) in that the 83rd birth could be BK, and whilst in the current body, the 84th birth to become a PBK. But the same scenario arises as for those who are still alive and those who have left their bodies at the end of the Confluence Age.

What this raises is what is meant by "a birth". Does it mean "spiritual birth", and that Gyan can be collected over several physical births ?

Whilst this impacts each one of us who is/has become a BK/PBK/ex-BK, more so especially the chariots of Shiva. For example the soul of Virendra Dev Dixit was a BK in his 82rd birth (when he first heard Shiva in 1930s), then on his 83rd birth as a BK prior 1969, before becoming a PBK (84th birth) post 1969 ... but this example is just my own guessing since I am not clear of what the term "birth" means and the meaning of the "84th birth".

I am not sure if all the above has come out easy to read, hope someone with higher intellect can clarify the facts of "birth" and "84th birth" more clearly.

It was suggested to me when I was with the BKs, and by more than one BK, that I was a"second birth" Brahmin, and that there were many such around. In other words we had been BKs in our previous birth, died imperfect, and been reborn in different bodies and found our way back to the BKs. I have no idea if I am in fact a second birth Brahmin, but I have often heard this phenomenon referred to by a number of BK souls.

I have also heard of other BKs who have been "recognised" by one or more of the old Dadis and Dadas as a reincarnation of an early BK who had died.

It seems that death is no escape But the role of the second birth Brahmin is (as the PBKs believe, i think) likely to be different from the role of a first birth Brahmin.

many of us put lots of hard work and service and study since this was your last chance

Ever been had?

Can you become a BK twice in separate bodies?

Why not? Some of us need to be burnt more than once before we learn not to put our hands in the fire ...

What this raises is what is meant by "a birth". Does it mean "spiritual birth", and that Gyan can be collected over several physical births?

I believe that the BKs mean, by 84 births, 83 physical births and one spiritual re-birth when you become (for the first time) a Brahmin. I guess one could be involved with the BKs without having that spiritual re-birth - and then have to be reborn in order to have the spiritual re-birth? My feeling is that (as usual) the BK teachings should not be taken literally as absolutely accurate in all circumstances (if indeed they are accurate in any circumstance.... ) - whatever rules they make, there will always be exceptions to those rules.

I am sure I remember being told by senior BKs that Brahma Baba (and only Brahma Baba) takes 85 births ...

someone with higher intellect can clarify the facts of "birth" and "84th birth" more clearly.

That's not me then! I know nothing ... ignorance is bliss

It was suggested to me when I was with the BKs, and by more than one BK, that I was a"second birth" Brahmin, and that there were many such around. In other words we had been BKs in our previous birth, died imperfect, and been reborn in different bodies and found our way back to the BKs. I have no idea if I am in fact a second birth Brahmin, but I have often heard this phenomenon referred to by a number of BK souls.

Yes, they had me down for being second birth BK Brahmin too ... indeed, in my time most or all young Western BKs that adopted quickly to Hindi lifestyles were all labelled such. And with that "Advanced Party" too. May be that is why I am so unimpressed by the Seniors and their worshippers ... But I thought / was told / taught to teach that the 84 births were all physical ones and the Alokik birth did not count. Interesting that we are discovering so many inconsistencies in the Gyan according to generation and geography.

It is dangerous flattering to the ego to think or be told that and, of course, entirely conjectural or illusionary. Complete Maya. Its strange in a way that given all the spiritual efforts being made that more folks don't have realizations of their previous births or genuine gifts to perceive them.

Some notes from yesterday's BK's morning Murli 15 Aug 2006 (thus revised Sakar Murli):

"The Father sits here and explains: You have taken 84 births; you do not know your own births. Actors should know how they take 84 births."

(comment : we're discussing this now within this thread)

"Destruction takes place with the power of science."

(comment: we're always discussing this now in the thread BK concept of destruction)

Essence for dharna: "Don't perform bad actions that would defame the name of the clan".

(comment: we're discussing this about the editing of and Access to Murlis thread.

The Q&A:

"What attention must you pay to make you worthy of a kingdom?"
"If you pay full attention to the study you can receive a kingdom". Listen carefully to what the Father says and imbibe it well"

(comment : we're discussing this and sharing amongst as many via the internet since the spiritual children are global on this forum. We listen to your words carefully although our own ignorance sometimes makes us, well at least me (Bansy soul), forget).

"Simply have Yoga with the Father. Continue to spin the discus of self-realisation".

(comment: Yes, Father)

Just a few snippets related on the activity from this limited forum in the past few days.

(b) The PBKs may have a similar, but more complex, situation as in (a) in that the 83rd birth could be BK, and whilst in the current body, the 84th birth to become a PBK. But the same scenario arises as for those who are still alive and those who have left their bodies at the end of the Confluence Age.

I discussed this issue with the nimit Sisters recently and got a reply that for such PBKs whose bodies are going to be rejuvenated in this birth, i.e. those who are going to become deities through the present body, the 84th birth is until the time of rejuvenation and the 1st birth starts after rejuvenation of the body (i.e. kanchankaya). But, if a present PBK leaves his body due to any reason and takes rebirth before destruction, that would be his/her 84th birth, the present one being the 83rd birth. Although he/she could not get his/her body rejuvenated in the present birth, he/she carries the sanskars of desires for a rejuvenated body and hence get his/her body rejuvenated in the next birth.

For the BKs, their present body is the 84th birth, if it continues till the final destruction and also in case they leave their body but do not take rebirth. In case a BK leaves his/her body and takes rebirth, that would be his/her last birth. Their 1st birth would be when they take physical birth as deity children from the rejuvenated deity couples after Destruction.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Thanks Sister bansy for creating this thread. The more I think about 84 births, the more get I confussed. Here are some questions in my mind.

1) We have 42 births in 1,250 years of the Iron Age. Then in the Iron Age our average age becomes even less than 30 years (1250/42 = 29.76). But even at the end of the Iron Age, very few population dies before age of 30. Today in India, the average age is greater than 50-55 years. Then what's the secret of 42 births?

2) What is difference between '84 ka Chakra' (cycle of 84) & '84 ka Fera' (revolution of 84)?

3) what is meant by '84 Janam' (84 births) & 'puray 84 Janam' (complete 84 births)?

4) what's the secret of '84 Lakshya Yoniyaan' (84,00,000 species)? Is the total number of species (like dog, cat) of living beings equal to 84,00,000?

This thread is over a year old, thanks for keeping it going ...

I don't think we can just consider the Indian average, as a Brahmin soul in the past can have rebirths anywhere in the world. Maybe once in the Darfur region and a previous one in the Japanese countryside etc, during the Iron Age. With the many wars and diseases that existed in the past, maybe the average life was not very long.

Average age of all the people in the world ... maybe this can be googled ... here's one site http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question57160.html and also another in wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy. The first link says about 24 years old and in the wiki link it says about 67.

How the "84" comes about remains a mystery figure that is somehow to be accepted as it is in the Murli.

1) We have 42 births in 1,250 years of the Iron Age. Then in the Iron Age our average age becomes even less than 30 years (1250/42 = 29.76). But even at the end of the Iron Age, very few population dies before age of 30. Today in India, the average age is greater than 50-55 years. Then what's the secret of 42 births?

I agree with what Sister Bansy has written. Because of the modern health facilities, the average age of people of the world might have risen in the present time, but in the past diseases and wars used to claim lives at very young age. I would like to add 'natural calamities' to this. Even today thousands of people die an untimely death due to diseases, malnutrition, wars and natural calamities.

3) what is meant by '84 Janam' (84 births) & 'puray 84 Janam' (complete 84 births)?

Complete 84 births means an allround part spanning complete 5000 years, but 'just 84 births' means 84 births, but less than 5000 years part, like that of Brahma Baba.

4) what's the secret of '84 Lakshya Yoniyaan' (84,00,000 species)? Is the total number of species (like dog, cat) of living beings equal to 84,00,000?

I do not know if 84 lakh species actually exist on this Earth or not, but we read about new species of animals being discovered every now and then. There are many areas of Earth including the depths of oceans where man has not ventured so far. So, one may never be able to actually count the exact number of species that exist or may have existed on Earth.

As regards its connection with knowledge, ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) says that a soul does not take rebirth as these 84 lakh species, but may contain the sanskars of these 84 lakh species.

As regards your use of the words 'chakra' and 'fera' in Hindi, I don't see any apparent difference between both the words. However, if you have churned anything special on this, you can share it with us.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

We often talk about births so here's a link about deaths http://www.androidworld.com/prod94.htm

57.2 million people die each year or 156,712 every day or 6530 per hour or 1.814 per second. (That is almost equal to UK's population)

I read a newsticker from Associated Press. Approx 8 million people die in China each year. (Thatis about London's population). I would think India is not too far from that figure.

It is not possible to know if you have any other births, I do not discount reincarnation though.