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Is not it always what is happening in History, epics and mythology? Where there is degradation and untruth prevails and is dominant, truth is not accepted as such so easily. There is always a battle between good and bad, before harmony is re-established. If you think were we are at in The Cycle.

At the end there is hell, what is the main reason for hell? Lack of truth. Diversity of opinion have spread, diversity of interests, illusion, Maya is over all of us.

There is only one who has the big picture, the essence of truth. He comes to provide it to us, but He cannot interfere with our drama. Drama is higher than him, so he will not impose the truth. Just present it to us. Then it is up to us to accept it or not. This is why he is not trying to prove anything to anyone.

Have peace, not war.

The peace is within oneself, and thus so is the war.

Whilst its sad to see the unity go to some extent, its clear the 9 religous groups within PBK are beginning to show themselves through the diverging opinions on the same knowledge.

Can you please start a topic to define these 9 religions within the BK family specifically and in detail so that we can understand and recognise them?

Truth is interpretive and relative in any case.

Truth is objective. Our perception of it many vary subjectively. Let us not confuse the two, and let us surrender the personal view to accept the objective view.

There is only one who has the big picture, the essence of truth. He comes to provide it to us, but He cannot interfere with our drama.

Which one is that? Shiva or Virendra Dev Dixit? How do we know which one speaks when? Or when he speaks down to our level or objectively?

Truth is interpretive and relative in any case.

ex-l wrote

Truth is objective. Our perception of it many vary subjectively. Let us not confuse the two, and let us surrender the personal view to accept the objective view.

Fine ex-l, I understand that perhaps 'truth' should be objective too. However, what I'd also like to suggest is that one only recognises and interprets their own truth according to their personal viewpoint and if one is not being objective, due to whatever reason (of which we see on this forum there could be many ...), then one cannot possible see the forest (wood) for the trees. You may be saying this too, and perhaps I am not understanding your viewpoint here?

After all, what's more important, "the individual tree' or all the 'trees' that make up the forest? Without one there wouldn't be another. But then what came first ~ the chicken or the egg? In my book, the ability to be objective relates to the individual viewpoint (or individual agenda) of the person/people involved. Many people cannot be objective (towards the greater good) because they have been 'trained' not to be as such, and may feel that they are posting their personal viewpoints whilst, in fact, they are not and so cannot possibly be objective. It could also maybe a case of the difference between reason and logic?

I note that many ex-bks on this forum are trying to get BKs/PBKs to be more objective and less subjective but often we only see the subjective taught viewpoints? Whatsayyou?

There is only one who has the big picture, the essence of truth. He comes to provide it to us, but He cannot interfere with our drama. Drama is higher than him, so he will not impose the truth. Just present it to us. Then it is up to us to accept it or not. This is why he is not trying to prove anything to anyone.

Surely the truth should have no contradictions and anomalies.

Well, you could say only those from other religious groups will see contradictions, but I say those who haven't studied carefully cannot see those contradictions. Or maybe there is an element of denial in order to show ones faith. But to me that is partisan and not someone who wants to reveal the truth.

Virendra Dev Dixit made a very pertinent point, which was posted earlier on in the forum, that Advanced Knowledge is not complete and is liable to change.

Great attention needs to be paid to what is going on, I believe, for someone to sit on there laurels and think, "Yes, I have found God. That is it. I will now just regurgitate without thinking".

Well, to me, that is not studying properly.

I note that many ex-BKs on this forum are trying to get BKs/PBKs to be more objective and less subjective but often we only see the subjective taught viewpoints? Whatsayyou?

I think subjectivity is a bit of a cult, and a recent one at that in which objective truths are stomped on and turned into some grey undiscernable porridge by those that have not a clue but are good at manipulating situations to their own benefit or deflecting accurate criticism from themselves. Or something like that.

You know, the "that the way you see" school of debate. It all came about in the 60s from a whole load of people were educated to a certain level (and stopped) but told that they were now academics when actually they should have been left as peasants and grocer's daughters ... ho-ho-ho!

John Bhai,

I do believe that in the Murli, there are neither contradictions nor anomalies. Baba presents The Knowledge, and we take from it what we want according to our belief system. He serves all the children from all the religions. He also assures that nowhere do even the Avyakt Vanis cross the Murlis or the clarifications.

Great attention needs to be paid to what is going on, I believe, for someone to sit on there laurels and think, "Yes, I have found God. That is it. I will now just regurgitate without thinking".

What has my faith to God got anything to do with laurels? Did I ever say that I was not churning The Knowledge because I already knew everything? Place go back to earlier posts I have made, you have made a hastily and unfair judgment.

ex-l Bhai,

It is clearly said in the Murli that it is Shiva who speaks in the Chariot, but if I answer to your other questions, it would be from my own subjectivity.

Baba says, "no one understand me as I am". I believe we all have our way to see. The way I see it is that, of course, being trikaldharshi (the knower of the three aspects of time), he understands infinitely more than we do. He adjusts the amount and type of knowledge he gives to us, basically, according to the needs of the specific public he has at the time he is giving the clarification.

Sometimes he only reads the Murli and hardly explains anything. Sometimes he reads very few lines and the rest is explanation. Sometimes he is very stern. Sometimes very sweet. The only thing that is sure is that he only speaks the truth.

Ram (Virendra Dev Dixit) is churning The Knowledge all the time, and Shiv is beyond churning, but he is the one teaching. The way we see ShivBaba will determine our destiny. I think most of us will get it at the end .

I do believe that in the Murli, there is not contradiction nor anomaly. Baba presents The Knowledge, and we take from it what we want according to our belief system. He serves all the children from all the religions. He also assures that nowhere do even the Avyakt Vanis cross the Murlis or the clarifications.

That was my point. If anyone uses their intelligence and observes closely, they will see anomalies and contradictions. Plenty have been pointed out on the forum but you have missed those threads, yet what will a PBK hint at? They will hint that only ones from other religions will see these contradictions.

It is a mind trap. A trap of using one piece of knowledge, i.e. that others from other religions will also learn Advanced Knowledge to counteract anyone who says anything (as they see it?) out of line.

Is it an easy trick used by some PBKs when they cannot give answers? Yes, I think it is. It is a misplaced use of knowledge. Maybe it's a subtle thing, but please think about it.

If there were no contradictions, why would knowledge need to be refined and changed?
If knowledge hasn't ended, then their is still room for interpretation?
How do you know anything anyone says, that you don't think is right, will in the future be shown to be right?

All you really have is your opinion, like everyone else.

Do all PBKs understand the same? If not then there will be contradictions.

what has my faith to God got anything to do with laurels? Did I ever say that I was not churning The Knowledge because I already knew everything? Place go back to earlier posts I have made, you have made a hastily and unfair judgment.

Anyone, at this point, who thinks they know the truth and understands all Gyan is resting on their laurels. By making remarks that you think someone is right and another is wrong and those you think are wrong should post on another part of the forum is, to my mind, making that assumption. Maybe it's a subtle thing.

Question for Aimee.

Has the 7 Day Course of advanced knowledge changed over time?

If someone takes the course in the early days and it has been refined and changed then someone takes the course in later days, will there not be differences?

The way we see ShivBaba will determine our destiny. I think most of us will get it at the end

Dear aimee.

Since you too believe that each one will view ShivBaba differently as per his intellect, which will then decide our destiny, then please answer one query below;

All BKs and PBKs know that the population at the beginning of Satyug is 9,16,108 souls, out of which 9,00,000 are ordinary praja, 16000 are royal praja of the royal family and 108 will be the kings. It is very easy to see how BK (9 lacs) and PBKs (16108) will be seperated out (through the acceptance of Advanced Knowledge). But how does one seperate out the 108 king souls from the rest of the PBK praja (16000)? Will the 108 king souls have the same intellect as the royal praja (16000)? Or will the kings' intellects see ShivBaba differently from the 16000 praja souls?

This is what i want to know.

shivsena.

Dear Brother john,

Its just a formal matter. We do not make changes and interpretations to The Knowledge. We learn. For us it is a strong theory with no contradictions. When someone points to some contradiction then he receives an answer. But if he is not happy with the answer then what can we do?

They are not happy with The Knowledge anyway and find reason to remark. If we continue like this, it will not go anywhere and become like the childish quarrel of "yes, it is" - "no, it is not". That's why those who are interested in the advance knwoledge, as Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit teaches it, then this is the place.

We understand differently, but generally it is the same knowledge. We have only one source and can always verify. There cannot be the concern of how much each one mixes from his own. Then one who likes to give other interpretations of the Murlis can do elsewhere.

It is clearly said in the Murli that it is Shiva who speaks in the Chariot, but if I answer to your other questions, it would be from my own subjectivity.

"It is true because it says it is true?" ... the obvious question is, "which Murlis when?". Personally, applying "Ockham's Razor" (when faced with two theories the simplest theories is more likely the best), I just think Virendra Dev Dixit HAS to say stuff like that because to say anything else would lose his following and credibility. God active or not. He has to work within the BKWSU Matrix and, to some extent, support it. We know he does not speak always and that sometimes Lekhraj Kirpalani speaks ... so that contradicts this quote.

To be honest aimée, and I mean this in total kindness, I think what happened was that you reached an imaginary wall of limitations in your own conception of Gyan but were being pushed to go through it by others. You panicked. And then started to construct a real wall to try and stop you and others from having to face the realisation that there is more beyond that wall to see, explore and understand.

We all do this. It is human. They thing to do is keep deconstructing those imaginary limitations and not throw bricks at others! But to know or understand what is real and what is illusion, what is knowledge and what is blind faith ... that is the big question.

Unfortunately, I think shivsena's logic must remain a valid open PBK question until we, or a few they, get to that point. It may not have any value to you, or us at this stage. I agree it does not because we are still at a rudimentary stage and building simple foundations in our minds.

So I agree that we should accept it as it is and put it aside for just now to invest our efforts into simple, basic foundation work for ourselves and others. Like documenting history and archiving Murlis etc.

Dear Brother ex-l,

Knowledge comes from one Father, devotion comes from human beings.

Oh my God, I have just been buried in elephant poop by one of Baba's maharatis again ...

So what is "Knowledge (tm)", Andrey? Which Father and when will it finally arrive? Sorry, did I wake you up again?

Look, this is one of those brainwashed robot functions kicking in. What you are saying is;

"I am brainwashed ..."
"I repeat what I have been told ..."
"Warning .. Warning ... New information ... Deny entry ..."
"Apply random denial sticker ... "

"Knowledge comes from one Father, devotion comes from human beings" ...

"Do not think ... repeat ... do not think"

Pull the cord out quick, Andrey, before it destroys your mind ... let us at least mutually agree that, unfortunately, "Knowledge" has come to means something specific and different within BK/PBK circles than it does to the rest of the World. The produce of brainwashed individuals, who have given up their critical functions, is illogical and irrelevant brainfarts like this. I take it as an insult and return the favor with personal advice and fairly objective analysis.

I have this image of Andrey on one of those funfair/computer games where you bash down with a toy hammer the little hamsters whose head keep popping up from holes all the times. Each time I post, he has to find some Gyani toy hammer to hit me on the head with thinking that it will cure me!