Who is the God of Gita - Krishna, Ram or Shiva Baba?

Dear Shivsena Bhai,

Omshanti. In the body of Shankar (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) the soul of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit (believed to be the soul of Confluence-Aged Ram/Narayan by PBKs) is Father and the soul of Dada Lekhraj (believed to be the soul of Golden Aged Krishna by PBKs) is the son. The Supreme Father Shiv is the teacher and the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) is the student. The soul of Ram makes the efforts to be in the continuous remembrance of Shiv and the soul of Krishna makes the efforts to study the Advanced Knowledge while he is in the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit.

The soul of Ram is the heavenly Father, Vishwa ka malik (master of the entire world), Jagannath and Rachayita (creator) while the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) is the heavenly prince, master of the Golden Aged heaven (limited to Indian subcontinent), Shrinath and rachana (creation).

This is because the soul of Ram plays an allround role, hero part, completes the task that he undertakes, while the soul of Krishna does not play an allround part nor completes the task that he had undertaken.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Omshanti. In the body of Shankar (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) the soul of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit (believed to be the soul of Confluence-Aged Ram/Narayan by PBKs) is Father and the soul of Dada Lekhraj (believed to be the soul of Golden Aged Krishna by PBKs) is the son.

May I ask you a question where is Supreme Soul Shiva now?

Thanks.

Dear BKDimOK Bhai,
Omshanti. We PBKs believe the Supreme Father Shiv to be giving knowledge and sustenance to the PBKs through the medium of Shankar (or the soul of Prajapita or Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) although He says that He may enter into others also to do service, but nobody including the final Chariot can claim that Father Shiv has entered into him/her.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Dear Arjun Bhai. As you mentioned above, and as I understand there are 3 souls in Virendra Dev Dixit body now (Shiva, Lekhraj Kirpalani and Virendra Dev Dixit)

Thanks.

Dear Arjun Bhai. As you mentioned above, and as I understand there are 3 souls in Veerendra Dev Dixit body now (Shiva, Dada Lekhraj and Veerendra Dev Dixit)

Brother BkdimOk,

Answering in Arjuns absence yes this is correct. Both 3 are working through his Chariot (body).

Omshanti

The Supreme Father Shiv is the teacher and the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) is the student.

The soul of Ram makes the efforts to be in the continuous remembrance of Shiv and the soul of Krishna makes the efforts to study the Advanced Knowledge while he is in the body of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit.

Dear arjun Bhai.

So according to you, Supreme Soul Shiva is teacher and Krishna is student studying RajYoga in the same body of Virendra Dev Dixit. So it is Krishna who is doing the purusharth of becoming nar-se-narayan and not Ram's soul. As you are saying that Ram's soul is in continuous rememberence of Supreme Soul Shiva to attain the 100% incorporeal stage, is that what you mean?

So my question still remains unanswered what is the end stage of Ram's purusharth and what title does he get in the end. Does it mean that Krishna becomes Narayan and Ram becomes living embodiment of ShivBaba, i.e. 100% incorporeal stage. As it is said, in Murlis that ''ShivBaba ki mahima alag aur Krishna ki mahima alag" (the praises of ShivBaba is different from the praises of Krishna)

By 'makes him' I mean to say 'inspires him' or gives him 'sakaash' (power).

Dear arjun Bhai.

I was under the impression that Supreme Soul Shiva says in Murlis that, ''He does not teach by inspiration from above nor does He teach by giving sakaash''. Also Supreme Soul Shiva says that if ''He can teach by inspiration from above then why do i need to come into this impure world''. Can you quote any Murli point (date) which says that Shivbap teaches by inspiration or by sakaash?

OK om shanti---shivsena.
===============

Why should Supreme Soul Shiva clarify the Vanis of child Krishna --this is my dillemma.

This is an interesting point. Are you suggesting that the Murlis clarifications are going round in circles ?

In the other thread "Murlis and events from 1969 to 1976" , I wondered why the Murlis during these years were not narrated in the first place by ShivBaba (or have they ?).

If Father Shiva is in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit, then ShivBaba (Virendra Dev Dixit) can either give us fresh new Murlis and explain the unexplained Gyan in depth, rather than narrating old Murlis. Past is past ?

Or, as it seems to be the case, have the assumption that in fact all the Sakar Murlis are actually totally complete with all The Knowledge complete but it wasn't given so clearly first time round, so and all that is needed is for Father Shiva to get them clearly narrated second time round, as well as making sure the souls of Ram and Krishna also get to learn it too (and Krishna also goes over to the BK camp now and again with Father Shiva as BapDada to give the BKs some support too).

This is an interesting point. Are you suggesting that the Murlis clarifications are going round in circles ?

Dear bansy Bhai.

Yes, that is what i am exactly trying to say and i quote a Murli point which says, "jab tak karmatit awastha nahin ban jaati, yeh time-pass aur khel-paal chalta hi rahega" (i will give the date later) because for the simple reason there cannot be true Gita Gyan during the shooting period of copper and iron age of the subtle drama which has commenced from 1989-90.

If Father Shiva is in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit, then ShivBaba (Veerendra Dev Dixit) can either give us fresh new Murlis and explain the unexplained Gyan in depth, rather than narrating old Murlis. Past is past?

Or, as it seems to be the case, have the assumption that in fact all the Sakar Murlis are actually totally complete with all The Knowledge complete but it wasn't given so clearly first time round, so and all that is needed is for Father Shiva to get them clearly narrated second time round, as well as making sure the souls of Ram and Krishna also get to learn it too (and Krishna also goes over to the BK camp now and again with Father Shiva as BapDada to give the BKs some support too).

Yes, in a way you can say that. All Sakar Murlis were complete in knowledge but it was given in a code form and the first one to break the code was Ram's soul and then everyone has been given a chance to churn The Knowledge on his own and take kingship from Father numberwise. Only in the end, when Rambap and Shivbap become combined (living ShivBaba), will it be known who is the nearest to the truth.

OK more later on this.

Dear BK and PBK Brothers.

I have always wondered about this query which i would like to share with my Brothers, which Father needs revelation and glorification?

The BKs were trying to reveal bindi ShivBaba in the body of Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) till 1969. After the demise of Dada Lekhraj in 1969, i do not know how they plan to reveal and glorify bindi ShivBaba. Can any staunch BK please clarify this issue?

The PBKs are trying to reveal bindi ShivBaba in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit. Now my dillemma is this, how is going to be done in future and does bindi ShivBaba really need to be glorified? Supreme Soul Shiva has never experienced any body-consciousness in the full cycle of 84 births in 5000 years, so how can He be revealed through a body? Or does Father Ram needs revelation and glorification in the end as he reaches the 100% incorporeal stage when Shivbap and Rambap merge together and become living ShivBaba!

Views of my Brothers are eagerly awaited.
ok---omshanti--shivsena.
=================

Dear Shivsena Bhai,
Omshanti. Although ShivBaba has said (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) that all the glory is attributable to the incorporeal Father Shiv and not to the souls of Ram (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) or Krishna (Lekhraj Kirpalani), but the revelation of the incorporeal Shiv has to take place through the body of one of the above souls. Since Dada Lekhraj has already left the body, we PBKs believe that incorporeal Father Shiv would get revealed only through the body of the soul of Ram.

It is neither point of light Shiv alone nor the human soul Ram alone that needs to be glorified but the combination of both. That is how they get revealed at the end of the Confluence Age. That is why the names Shiv and Shankar have been mixed up in the path of worship (Bhaktimarg).

Or does Father Ram needs revelation and glorification in the end as he reaches the 100% incorporeal stage when Shivbap and Rambap merge together and become living ShivBaba!

You have been quoting the above underlined words in many of your posts. What do you mean by merging together of Father Shiv and Father Ram? Does it mean that Father Shiv ceases to exist after the Confluence Age or does it mean the attainment of equal stage or do you mean to say that Father Shiv and Father Ram would spend the rest of the 5000 year cycle in the same bodies for 84 births? Kindly give a clear reply.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Dear Shivsena Bhai,
Omshanti. Although ShivBaba has said (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) that all the glory is attributable to the incorporeal Father Shiv and not to the souls of Ram (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) or Krishna (Dada Lekhraj), but the revelation of the incorporeal Shiv has to take place through the body of one of the above souls. Since Dada Lekhraj has already left the body, we PBKs believe that incorporeal Father Shiv would get revealed only through the body of the soul of Ram.

Dear Arjun Bhai.
I think that incorporeal bindi Shiv does not need any glorification; it is Ram's soul who by his own effort achieves the 100% incorporeal stage needs to be glorified; and when he achieves this stage in the near future then both Shivbap+Rambap would be revealed through the body of Virendra Dev Dixit.

It is neither point of light Shiv alone nor the human soul Ram alone that needs to be glorified but the combination of both. That is how they get revealed at the end of the Confluence Age. That is why the names Shiv and Shankar have been mixed up in the path of worship (Bhaktimarg).

That is exactly what i have been trying to say; one cannot seperate Shiv and Ram from each other ; but most PBKs are still insisting on seeing bindi Shivbap in Ram's forehead and completely forgetting the niraakari stage of Ram's soul.

You have been quoting the above underlined words in many of your posts. What do you mean by merging together of Father Shiv and Father Ram? Does it mean that Father Shiv ceases to exist after the Confluence Age or does it mean the attainment of equal stage or do you mean to say that Father Shiv and Father Ram would spend the rest of the 5000 year cycle in the same bodies for 84 births? Kindly give a clear reply.

By merging i mean that zero(Shiv) and one(Ram) become combined; Shiv does not cease to exist; it just means that for all practical purpose for us PBKs, Ram has achieved the status equal to Shivbap and they cannot be differentiated from each other; that is why in Bhakti it is said ''Ram nam satya hai''-(not shivnam satya hai)

Also i do not believe that there is anything like Paramdham (golden red world) in outer space where Shivbap goes and rests for the next 5000 years; Shivbap again just becomes an observer in Ram's body for 5000 years (''sadaa kayam iss shristi par sirf ShivBaba hai''; meaning that ShivBaba ie Shiv+Ram is always present on this earth) and that explains the digital technology in science which is based on combination power of zero+one. If zero(Shiv) goes out in space for next 5000 years then why the numerical zero stays with us for next 5000 years--this is what i have not been able to understand.

shivsena

Some very radical thinking there Shivasena

Also I do not believe that there is anything like Paramdham (golden red world) in outer space where Shivbap goes and rests for the next 5000 years;

Where do believe the rest of the souls go at the end of iron age?

If there is not a place to store all the souls, then how does the population increase from 900,000 to 7 billion in the world cycle, or do you have a differing view of the 5,000 year world cycle?

I think that incorporeal bindi Shiv does not need any glorification;

I think glorification of Shiva is not for Shiva's benefit, its for the human race's benefit.

Some very radical thinking there Shivasena.

Dear john Bhai.
Thanks for your appreciation.

Where do believe the rest of the souls go at the end of iron age?

Good logical question; if there is no Paramdham in outer space then where do the souls go???? I will be giving my views on this later on when we discuss about the rudramala and vijaymala souls.

If there is not a place to store all the souls, then how does the population increase from 900,000 to 7 billion in the world cycle, or do you have a differing view of the 5,000 year world cycle?

Souls are sparks of eternal energy and they do not require space; they are more minute than an atom and just imagine in one cm square of a gold nugget how many atoms of the yellow metal can be concentrated (unlimited; is it not???); then how much space would the souls require????

I think glorification of Shiva is not for Shiva's benefit, it's for the human races benefit.

If it is for the benefit of human race then all the more reason that it is Rambap who should be revealed and glorified(because he has taken 84 births and achieved the 100% incorporeal stage) and not bindi Shiva, whom the human race (6-7 billion souls) cannot identify with.

OK om shanti---shivsena.
================

If it is for the benefit of human race then all the more reason that it is Rambap who should be revealed and glorified(because he has taken 84 births and achieved the 100% incorporeal stage) and not bindi Shiva, whom the human race(6-7 billion souls) cannot identify with.

Yes, I see your point, but it is only God who is remembered by all the souls of the world, Rambap is only known and understood by diety/Hindu religion. Outside of India Ram is hardly known.

Good logical question; if there is no Paramdham in outer space then where do the souls go???? I will be giving my views on this later on when we discuss about the rudramala and vijaymala souls.

OK, look forward to them

Souls are sparks of eternal energy and they do not require space; they are more minute than an atom and just imagine in one cm square of a gold nugget how many atoms of the yellow metal can be concentrated(unlimited; is it not???);then how much space would the souls require????

I don't think it's the space which is the main issue, but being suspended in a state of purity in the Brahm element.

Also I do not believe that there is anything like Paramdham (golden red world) in outer space where Shivbap goes and rests for the next 5000 years; Shivbap again just becomes an observer in Ram's body for 5000 years (''sadaa kayam iss shristi par sirf ShivBaba hai''; meaning that ShivBaba ie Shiv+Ram is always present on this earth) and that explains the digital technology in science which is based on combination power of zero+one. If zero(Shiv) goes out in space for next 5000 years then why the numerical zero stays with us for next 5000 years--this is what I have not been able to understand.[/color]

Actually, the numerical zero was lost for quite a while - or at least to quite a large proportion of humanity - on and off through history. Its scientific reality and necessity was a hotly debated subject.

I really appreciate the scientific rigor you are bring into this forum shivsena. Perhaps you can explain how Paramdham can be "infinite" ... except for a little blob cut out for the material universe. Surely "infinite" minus a bit is a finite.

Not 'why' but 'how' can there be any spacial, geographical limitation? Infinite is everywhere and eternal for all time. So is Paramdham everywhere all the time? Or is it only "eternal" minus a little chunk minused out by the same mystical principle, as above?

So if you add these thoughts to your, surely, accurate observation that the infinitessimal soul occupies no space ... what do we get? How can we tell there is any separation between any soul, at any time?

I believe that it has been reported here, from Shiva Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit, that the material universe is also infinite, which I have no argument against.

It is the soul that creates form, and yet the soul is formless. Infinity is in the space between the lines.