8 Topmost souls

Dear Shivsena Bhai,

Omshanti. Since this question is also beyond my capacity of answering, I would seek an answer from Baba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) and convey his answer to you.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Dear arjun Bhai.

Who is the first (1) and the last (108) bead of rudramala rosary. And who is rudra-shivbaba himself?

Can you please clarify.
shivsena.

Prashna: Kya Dashrath Bhai (Aryasamajiyon ke mukhiya ke roop may) 108 ki mala may aa saktey hain?
Uttar: Avykta Vani may kah diya " Result out BapDada mukh dwara nahi karenge ya koi kagaj ya board par number nahi likhenge. Lekin result out kaise hogi? - Aap swayam hi swayam ko apni yogyataon pramaan apney-apney nischit number kay yogya samjhenge aur siddh karenge. Automatically unkay mukh say swayam kay prati final result kay number na sochte huye bhi unkay mukh say sunaai dengey aur chalan say bhi dikhayi denge. Arthaat Brahman parivaar sish mahal ban jaavega . AV 27-5-74

Question: Can Dashrath Bhai (as the head of Aryasamajis) come in 108 rosary bead?
Ans: It has been said in the Avyakt Vani, "BapDada would neither give out the result through his mouth nor would he write the number on the board. But how would the result come out (i.e. become known to everyone)? - You yourself would consider yourself to be worthy of your fixed number as per your capabilities and also prove it. The number of the final result would be heard from their mouth automatically without even thinking about it and it would also be visible from their actions, i.e. the Brahmin family would become a sheeshmahal (a palace of mirrors )- AV-27.5.74

Question: Can Dashrath Bhai (as the head of Aryasamajis) come in 108 rosary bead?
Ans: It has been said in the Avyakt Vani, "BapDada would neither give out the result through his mouth nor would he write the number on the board. But how would the result come out (i.e. become known to everyone)? - You yourself would consider yourself to be worthy of your fixed number as per your capabilities and also prove it. The number of the final result would be heard from their mouth automatically without even thinking about it and it would also be visible from their actions, i.e. the Brahmin family would become a sheeshmahal (a palace of mirrors )- AV-27.5.74

Dear arjun Bhai.

I had raised this query about dashrathbhai because he was already declared as the ''head of arya-samajis'' in the previous answer and i wanted to know his place in rudramala; i am aware of the above quote which says that each soul will reveal himself according to his actions and that Baba will not declare any soul's status; so the next logical question is ; whether rudramala beads consists of seed souls of all religions or does it consist of souls of only suryavanshis????

Also i wanted to know the 3 seats that have been declared in avaykt Vani namely, ''Brahma, Bap and jagdamba''; can you kindly elaborate as to who are these 3 souls?
shivsena.

whether rudramala beads consists of seed souls of all religions or does it consist of souls of only suryavanshis????

I think the Rudramala (rosary of 108) consists of seed-like souls of all the religions including the 12 beads belonging to the Sun Dynasty (Sooryavanshi).

Also I wanted to know the 3 seats that have been declared in avaykt Vani namely, ''Brahma, Bap and jagdamba''; can you kindly elaborate as to who are these 3 souls?

As far as I know/have heard, Brahma refers to the soul of Vaishnavi Devi, 'Baap' refers to the soul of Ram and Jagdamba refers to the soul of Jagdamba/Badee ma.

For those who might not have understood the above language, I would like to clarify that :
The PBKs believe that Vaishnavi Devi is the soul who is believed to get revealed as the head of Vijaymala (rosary of victory) who is still a Brahmakumari. The PBKs believe that soul of (Confluence-Aged) Ram is the present Chariot of Shiv, i.e. Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. The PBKs believe that the role of Jagdamba is being played by a PBK named Kamla Devi.

It may kindly be noted that the above clarification was given by Baba only in respect of the phrase 'Brahma Bap and Jagdamba' mentioned in an Avyakt Vani which has been referred to by Shivsena Bhai. Otherwise, normally, it is explained in the picture of Trimurti by the PBKs that the soul of Jagdamba is Brahma, Vaishnavi Devi is Vishnu and the soul of Ram is Shankar.

However, I would get these answers verified by Baba.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

So the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani has no place?

Is it considered that the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani will become Krishna in the Golden Age?

If that is so, why is there no place for that soul?

So the soul of Dada Lekhraj has no place? Is it considered that the soul of Dada Lekhraj will become Krishna in the Golden Age?

No. He does have a place, but not in the rosary of 108, as mentioned in one of the Q&A. Yes, he becomes the Golden Aged Krishna. He is the first soul to take birth in the Golden Age and he takes birth from the Confluence-Aged World Emperor Narayan.

If that is so, why is there no place for that soul?

He does not play an all round part. His role gets reduced by almost 50 years in this 5000 years drama, whereas all the souls who get included in the rosary of 8 or 108 are present almost till the end of the Confluence Age with their bodies. Baba says in the Murlis (published by BKs) that whoever has witnessed the end has witnessed everything. He also says that you would see heaven practically with your eyes.

So, who is greater? The one who witnesses the revelation of the Father, the establishment of heaven and the destruction of the old world or is it the one who leaves his body long before the climax of this drama? Dada Lekhraj Brahma did not face the opposition of the entire world. He faced opposition only from few Sindhis in the early days of the Yagya. The world has become much more degraded since then. So who is greater? One who becomes perfect while living in the most degraded conditions or the one who lived most part of his life as a diamond merchant and then as the controller of the rich Yagya (BKWSU)?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

the one who lived most part of his life as a diamond merchant and then as the controller of the rich Yagya (BKWSU)?

This is discussion for another topic but I cannot for the life of me understand WHY the BKWSU makes such an issue about wonderful Lekhraj Kirpalani is on the basis of his becoming a jeweller or diamond merchant.

It reveals where their consciousness is ... woo-woo diamonds ... so rich and famous ... honestly, they are like the Paris Hiltons of the New Age.

Apart from being entirely superficial and body-conscious, the diamond trade is utterly vicious and full of exploitation, slavery, violence and dishonest cartels. Why do not hear of the wonderful Lekhraj Kirpalani establishing the first frade trade or ethical diamond company, do we? ( ... but some non-BK, unenlightened, impure Shudras have done recently).

You me want to summarize the history of the BKs?

Rich Sindhi makes millions off the backs of exploited slave workers selling goods they don't need to individuals with too much money taken off the backs of other exploited slaves and peasants.
More rich Sindhis live off said wealth without working.
Said Sindhis believe world is going to end and so head for the hills.
Said wealth runs out unexpectedly and so Sindhis come down from hills looking for money.
Said previous rich Sindhis go into business making money out of nothing, e.g. religion, and still don't go to work.
Said Sindhi start to worship previously rich Sindhi who set them up and others that showed them how to run business.
Said Sindhis start a religion on this basis, e.g. Dada and Dadi worship.

End of story.

This is discussion for another topic but I cannot for the life of me understand WHY the BKWSU makes such an issue about wonderful Dada Lekhraj is on the basis of his becoming a jeweller or diamond merchant.

Their point is that Dada Lekhraj is great because he surrendered all his wealth for the sake of Yagya. He constructed buildings with all amenities for the children, while he himself preferred to live in a hut (not in the form we see today). While he lived in a hut, many of his children might be living in AC rooms today (I heard there are AC rooms in Gyan Sarovar complex) We accept that greatness of Brahma Baba and it is worthy of emulation. But he and many other old BKs had surrendered all their wealth on the basis of divine visions. But the latter BKs or PBKs or Baba Virendra Dev Dixit did not have that advantage. So who is greater - One who surrenders his body, mind and wealth on the basis of divine visions or the one who surrenders his body, mind and wealth on the basis of knowledge?????

• “You children have had the divine visions of the heaven as well as the destruction. Baba also renounced only when he had divine visions, but there was not as much knowledge available at that time, as is available now. There is a difference of day and night between The Knowledge (available at that time and available now). First we were in complete night (i.e. darkness of ignorance); we used to give The Knowledge of omnipresence; every human being is Khuda (God) himself. First of all there was this knowledge worth paai -paise (the smallest unit of Indian currency soon after the independence of India); now we feel that it was wrong.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.12.05, page 3 published by BKs)

Apart from being entirely superficial and body-conscious, the diamond trade is utterly vicious and full of exploitation, slavery, violence and dishonest cartels. Why do not hear of the wonderful Dada Lekhraj establishing the first frade trade or ethical diamond company, do we?

ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) has indeed accepted that cheating does take place in the diamond trade. I have read the point in one of the Sakar Murlis published by BKs last year. If I find it I would quote it.

BK history does say that Brahma Baba did run the business on the basis of honesty. That is why many kings and queens, including the Officers of the then British Rule in India used to purchase diamonds from him.

The Advanced Knowledge says that it was Dada Lekhraj's business partner Sevakram who had a discerning eye for true diamonds and because of this quality he went on to rise from being a mere employee in Dada Lekhraj's shop to his business partner. Brahma Baba invested his wealth while his partner invested his skill. Well, this is a subject of research. If it is proved correct, then it will also prove how the alokik life of the soul of Ram (Sevakram) and the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) in the Yagya reflected their roles in the real lokik life. Brahma Baba (playing a mother's role) could not discern or contol the evil children among the Brahmin children and encouraged everyone equally, but the soul of Ram (playing the Father's role - first as Sevakram, and then as Baba Virendra Dev Dixit in the next birth) had/has that quality of discernment and the knack of controlling the wicked ones among the Brahmin family and keeping them at bay.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Their point is that Dada Lekhraj is great because he surrendered all his wealth for the sake of Yagya ... ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) has indeed accepted that cheating does take place in the diamond trade ... BK history does say that Brahma Baba did run the business on the basis of honesty. That is why many kings and queens, including the Officers of the then British Rule in India used to purchase diamonds from him.

The Advanced Knowledge says that it was Dada Lekhraj's business partner Sevakram who had a discerning eye for true diamonds and because of this quality he went on to rise from being a mere employee in Dada Lekhraj's shop to his business partner. Brahma Baba invested his wealth while his partner invested his skill. Well, this is a subject of research.

I very much agree that the accurate history of the Yagya is crucial.

Perhaps that editing out of Sevakram from the Murlis and history is part of the removal of information because, "they are too much to do with India" as someone recently inferred on the forum?

Whether Lekhraj Kirpalani was honest in his business matters little. You can have an honest gun trader, an honest drug dealer, an honest CocaCola or McDonalds trader, an honest gas chamber builder etc ... the business at large is a separate subject and also comes under scrutiny. Why did he become a jeweller and diamond trader from a grain merchant? To make more money?

If you think about it, and this is deep, a jeweller is a servant to rich and indulgent poeple's vanity. Not ordinary people's need. The jeweller or diamond trader makes his wealth through exploiting the work of ordinary people, e.g. the miners and labourers, supplying vain, greedy or power hungry people. You might find some correlation to the changes in the BKWSU in this.

One has an ability to effect change in life by refusing to engage in business that are not moral, or setting up a business in a specific trade that is moral from beginning to end. We call it Fairtrade.

But, lastly, just to refer back, I would like to know accurate details about Sevak Ram and the other original BKs that left the Yagya and why. I would like to see the BKs answers these questions too.

Maybe the question to be asking is could Brahma Baba did what he could if he did not have the monetary wealth to start of with.

As far as I know/have heard, Brahma refers to the soul of Vaishnavi Devi, 'Baap' refers to the soul of Ram and Jagdamba refers to the soul of Jagdamba/Badee ma.

Dear arjun Bhai.

Does this mean that top seat of vijaymala(even though that soul is completely unaware of)is fixed and the 2 seats of rudramala namely Ram and jagdamba have already been declared; if Ram is the top seat of rudramala, then who is rudrashivbaba(phool) in rudramala and what is the seat no. of jagdamba(is it no. 2, 3, or 108)
Can you please elaborate on this numbering game.

shivsena.

No. He does have a place, but not in the rosary of 108, as mentioned in one of the Q&A. Yes, he becomes the Golden Aged Krishna. He is the first soul to take birth in the Golden Age and he takes birth from the Confluence-Aged World Emperor Narayan.

Dear arjun Bhai.
If Krishna does not come in 108, does it mean that 108 rudramala souls are more powerful than him, since they will rule over their respective sections in Sangamyug; and Krishna will rule over only 9,16,108 souls at the beginning of Golden Age.
shivsena.

He does not play an all round part. His role gets reduced by almost 50 years in this 5000 years drama, whereas all the souls who get included in the rosary of 8 or 108 are present almost till the end of the Confluence Age with their bodies.

If Krishna does not play an all round part than why is it repeatedly mentioned in Murlis that "Full 84 births in 5000 years are for Krishna only" why is it never mentioned in Murlis that ''Ram takes full 84 births''? Can you please clarify this ambiguity between Murlis and Advanced Knowledge?

I think the Rudramala (rosary of 108) consists of seed-like souls of all the religions including the 12 beads belonging to the Sun Dynasty (Sooryavanshi).

Dear arjun Bhai,
If rudramala consists of seed souls of all religions, then the seed souls of arya-samajis would also be very much present in 108 souls and so dashrathbhai as their head of arya-samajis would also be in 108. (which means that inspite of being instrumental in sending Baba to jail and doing lot of dis-service by proclaining himself as God, he still manages to come in 108) ; this is what i have not understood at all. Can you please give your views about the same?
shivsena.

Does this mean that top seat of vijaymala(even though that soul is completely unaware of)is fixed and the 2 seats of rudramala namely Ram and jagdamba have already been declared; if Ram is the top seat of rudramala, then who is rudrashivbaba(phool) in rudramala and what is the seat no. of jagdamba(is it no. 2, 3, or 108). Can you please elaborate on this numbering game?

In the clarification Murlis narrated by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) He has talked about two seats having been fixed in definite manner. But although we all know about the third seat, Baba has not talked about the third seat having been fixed in a definite manner. That is why in the Sakar Murlis/Avyakt Vanis published by BKs it has been mentioned that 2-3 seats have been fixed. It has not been said in a definite sense that 3 seats have been fixed. As regards the red flower in the rosary of 108, I think it refers to the incorporeal Shiv, because that flower is not included in the rosary as a bead. However, I would seek Baba's answer in this regard. As regards the seat no. of Jagdamba, I have sent the doubt to Baba.

If Krishna does not play an all round part than why is it repeatedly mentioned in Murlis that "Full 84 births in 5000 years are for Krishna only" why is it never mentioned in Murlis that ''Ram takes full 84 births''. Can you please clarify this ambiguity between Murlis and Advanced Knowledge.

The Krishna which you are referring is the Confluence-Aged Krishna (the present Chariot of Shiv) and not the Golden Aged Krishna (Dada Lekhraj Brahma) whose role has been reduced by almost 50 years.

If rudramala consists of seed souls of all religions, then the seed souls of arya-samajis would also be very much present in 108 souls and so dashrathbhai as their head of arya-samajis would also be in 108. (which means that inspite of being instrumental in sending Baba to jail and doing lot of dis-service by proclaining himself as God, he still manages to come in 108) ; this is what I have not understood at all.

But the drama is not yet over. What do we know about the role that he is going to play in future?

If Krishna does not come in 108, does it mean that 108 rudramala souls are more powerful than him, since they will rule over their respective sections in Sangamyug; and Krishna will rule over only 9,16,108 souls at the beginning of Golden Age.

Yes, I think so.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

But, lastly, just to refer back, I would like to know accurate details about Sevak Ram and the other original BKs that left the Yagya and why. I would like to see the BKs answers these questions too.

I think whatever PBKs know about Sevakram is from the literature and the Sakar Murlis published by the BKs so far. The accurate details are a matter of research.

In the comic titled 'Bachhon ke Baba' the BKs have given a graphical account of the conversation that took place between Brahma Baba and Sevakram after the former had divine visions. The comic shows Dada Lekrhaj telling Sevakram to relieve him because he was no longer interested in the business. He asks him to settle the accounts. Sevakram replies to Baba, "Lakhiraj, what are you doing? Who would take care of all this? I don't know anything." Baba accepted whatever the partner finalized.

From the above conversation it appears that both of them had a intimate relationship because each was calling the other by name, which is not very common in case of conversations between two business persons in India.

The English version of the above comic must be available at any of the BK centers/shops across the world.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun