8 Topmost souls

Can somebody kindly clarify in PBK terms the meaning of the top 8 souls.

Would Mr Patel of the Vishnu Party come in the list of 8? If not, then where, if anywhere would he come?

Can somebody kindly clarify in PBK terms the meaning of the top 8 souls.
Would Mr Patel of the Vishnu Party come in the list of 8?, if not, then where, if anywhere would he come?

Whereas people are confined to their geographic locations in time, souls are universal, like the Judaic god Jehovah, who could be carried around, in contrast with religions/traditions/cultures where holiness is connected with place. 'Top' souls somehow implies that souls can be exchanged like engines.

How, if each person has a unique place, can one be considered superior?
Am I drinking from the nourishment provided by these 'root' souls? How would I know?
Is Louis Armstrong superior to everyone before or since? But I cannot hear him live today.
Is he better than Dave Brubek?

I thought comparison of self to others was anathema to personal growth, and proscribed by BKs.

I thought comparison of self to others was anathema to personal growth, and proscribed by BKs.

Well, you see Joel, accepting objectivity, or objectively true knowledge, is a very high level of personal growth ... and you have just not reached that level yet! Perhaps it is a matter of terminology, define "topness" just as I asked elsewhere "define spirituality", e.g. the 8 most spiritual ... most yogi ... most pure ... most acquiescent channels. But, a fair question, could we open this up for PBKs to explain the larger subject of numberwise? What you could be questioning, Joel, is the whole issue of setting souls against each other in competition and using ambition to encourage spiritual efforts, e.g. to become one of the 8, 108, 16,108 etc., feels a little unenlightened.

It was never made 100% clear to me if the 8 were included in the 108, nor both included in the 16,108, e.g. was it really 8, 100 and then 16,000. What was the connection between the numbers?

No one really knew, they were just sort of jokey icons for speculative topics of conversation.

What I have picked up from PBKs is that there are seed souls, root souls and then the expansion. Does that mean 8 seeds and 8 roots etc?

If God begot the 8 and then through the 8 became the 100 and through the 100 became the 16,000 and then through the 16,000 became the 900,000 etc I could understand it, like a single river splitting into 8, then 108, then 16,108 subsidiaries etc. One could not grow to become "one of the 8", one could only realize one's self to be one of the first 8 seed or root souls. Where as most individuals "go with the flow" of the river of life, in my experience there is generally someone up ahead creating the flow for others to folllow. So are we talking about "master creator" souls that take the One, self realize it but introduce 8 slightly different permutations that then spin off further permutation and so on.

If one was to line up the whole of humanity that ever existed in order of tallness, theoretically it could be done. In order of the "most kind ever" would be a little bit harder to obectively measure. At the level of talents, even as a metaphor for Knowledge, even more impossible, e.g. "best musician" ... but competence could be overwhelmed by soullessness, fabulous improvisation skills may exclude an ability to follow a score. Personally, I agree. Numberwise looks like a graveyard to me whilst life is constantly changing and largely unknowable. It can only exist in a system where there is a fixed end of time ... and time is all over. Look how it has manifest in the BKWSU where souls have almost universally been accepted on their thrones already.

But ... it is written into practically every religion, and is especially beloved of Hindu and Buddhism, so either it has objective truth or it has an appeal our hungry chattering minds than needs something to chew on to keep it quiet.

Dear Brothers,
Omshanti. You have raised many interesting questions which have perhaps been discussed in the discussion classes between Baba and PBKs that are recorded as CDs. But since the nature of the questions is such that I do not wish to create any ambiguity by giving a vague answer. Hence, I would convey your doubts to Baba and convey the answers through this thread.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

What I have picked up from PBKs is that there are seed souls, root souls and then the expansion. Does that mean 8 seeds and 8 roots etc?

Yes, this is what I am referring to. Are the topmost considered the 8 seeds of different religions or the 8 in line from Prajapita(Virendra Dev Dixit)?

I think topmost in the sense of purity, virtues. I think that each 8 seeds each have their own top 8 and further numberwise. How it makes up the 108 I am not too clear about.

I am one of them, probably number 6 or 7 ...

... and why not!!!??

While we waiting for Baba's reply on the 108 ... I have another question ... does anybody know if the 8 are the one's called Astadev?

I think Astadev are the souls that give full support to Baba(Virendra Dev Dixit) till the end.

Interesting how on Brahma Baba's (Lekhraj Kirpalani) time no soul was ever selected as an Astadev so that again could prove that DL was there in the middle and nothing got accomplished during his time in regard to the nominations or revelations of the 8 main souls.

Regards to all

omshanti

Can somebody kindly clarify in PBK terms the meaning of the top 8 souls.

Would Mr Patel of the Vishnu Party come in the list of 8? If not, then where, if anywhere would he come?

Dear john Bhai.
You have started a very valid thread and also the most controversial topic; this subject of astha ratnas (topmost eight souls) is discussed openly in BKs and PBKs, but a lot of ignorance still abounds and nothing in particular is quite clear to any BK or PBK;the astha ratnas; the astha devas; the maharathis; the pass with honour souls; the children who get topmost scholarship; Are all these synonymous terms or there is a different meaning to all of the above mentioned Murli points; this is to be debated and solved.

Also i would like to know from any PBK, if Krishna's soul is in the topmost 8 souls or in the rosary of 108 souls (rudramala beads).

OK Om Shanti -- shivsena.
================

Yes, this is what I am referring to. Are the topmost considered the 8 seeds of different religions or the 8 in line from Prajapita(Veerendra Dev Dixit)?

While we waiting for Baba's reply on the 108 ... I have another question ... does anybody know if the 8 are the one's called Astadev?

Omshanti. Actually, as part of the basic knowledge we came to know that those who pass with honours in this spiritual study are the topmost 8 souls.

As part of the Advanced Knowledge being narrated by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) to PBKs, it has been told that there are Brahmin souls (BKs and PBKs) containing sanskars of the 10 religions shown in the picture of World Tree. The BKs with the sanskars of a particular region is called the base or root-like soul of that religion. The PBKs with the sanskars of a particular religion is called the seed-like soul of that religion.

For many years, it was thought by the PBKs that the topmost 8 souls are the Eight gems that Baba refers to in the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis. And that these 8 gems are the 8 seed-like souls of the first 8 religions (Sun dynasty, Moon Dynasty, Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Muslim, Sanyas and Sikhism).

But since many months ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has been indicating in the clarification Murlis that the 8 topmost souls in the Brahmin family correspond to the 8 topmost souls belonging to the Sun Dynasty, i.e. Surya vansh. These are the souls that follow the Sun of Knowledge completely. They are called Ashta Dev, i.e. the eight deities.

I have erred in any of the above points, other PBKs may kindly correct me.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Also I would like to know from any PBK, if Krishna's soul is in the topmost 8 souls or in the rosary of 108 souls (rudramala beads).

Omshanti.
As far as I know, I don't think the soul of Krishna, i.e. Dada Lekhraj is included in the topmost 8 souls, i.e. Suryavanshis (belonging to the Sun Dynasty) because the soul of Krishna is referred to as the Gyan Chandrama (moon of knowledge).

But I am not sure if the soul of Krishna is included in the rosary of 108 or not? I will seek answer from Baba and intimate.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Prashna: PBKs kee drishti say sarvashreshtha 8 aatmaon ka arth kya hai?
Uttar: 8 dene wale devtayen hain, lene ki iccha rakhne wale nehi.

Prashna: Kya Vishnu Party kay Shri Patel 8 ki list may aayengey? Yadi nahi toh voh kis mala may aayengey?
Uttar: Nehi, Aryasamajion ka head bansakte hai .

Prashna: Kya 108 kee mala may 8 shaamil hain?
Uttar: Haan, ji.

Prashna: Kya 16,108 kee mala may 8 aur 108 kee mala shaamil hai? Arthaat kya teen malaen 8, 100 aur 16000 kee hain? In teenon malaon ke beech may kya sambandh hai?
Uttar: 8 first class mala, 108 2nd class mala, 16108 third class mala. 8, 108, 16108 me mala number ki connection hai. mala ki priority hai.

Prashna: PBKs say pataa chala hai ki duniya may beejroopi aatmaen, jad swaroop aatmaen aur fir unka vistaar hota hai. Kya iska arth hai 8 beej aur 8 aadhaarmoort, ityaadi?
Uttar: Pehley hai beejroopi atmaon ki duniya, phir B.K jad swarup atmaaon ki duniya. Beej se nikalti hai jaden, phir pattey aur tahniyon wali duniya, jad se nikalti hai tahniyaan aur pattey. Usmey bhi ashtadev sabke purvaj hain, beejroop atmaaon ke bhi purvaj, jadon ke aur tahniyon ke toh poorvaj hain hee.

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Question: From the point of view of the PBKs, who the topmost 8 souls?
Ans: 8 souls are the deities who give. They are not the ones with a desire to seek.

Question: Would Mr Patel of the Vishnu Party come in the list of 8? If not, then where, if anywhere would he come?
Ans: No, he can become the head of Aryasamajis.

Question: Are 8 beads of the rosary of 8 included in the rosary of 108?
Ans: Yes.

Question: Are the 8 beads of the rosary of 8 and the 108 beads of the rosary of 108 included in the rosary of 16108, i.e. do the rosaries actually consist of 8, 100 and 16000 respectively? What is the connection between these three rosaries?
Ans: 8 is the first class rosary; 108 is the second class rosary; 16108 is the third class rosary. The connection of the numbers is 8, 108 and 16108. This is the priority of the rosary.

Question: It has come to be known from the PBKs that there are seed-like souls, root-like souls and their expansion in the world. Does it mean that are 8 seeds and 8 roots etc.?
Ans: First is the world of seed-like souls, and then is the world of BK root-like souls. Roots emerge from the seeds. Then the world of leaves and branches emerges. The branches and leaves emerge from the roots. Even in this, the 8 deities are the ancestors of everyone. They are the ancestors of the seed-like souls also; they are already the ancestors of the roots and the branches.

Question: Would Mr Patel of the Vishnu Party come in the list of 8? If not, then where, if anywhere would he come?
Ans: No, he can become the head of Aryasamajis.

Dear arjun Bhai.

It means that Dashrath Bhai of Vishnu Party is not among the top 8 souls but he is certainly amongst the 108 souls of rudramala (as the head of arya-samajis ) ; is that what Baba is trying to imply. Please clarify.

shivsena.

In the Murlis read @ the BKWSU is not there a point which says that only 8 will return home without having to 'meet' Dharamraj'? (I think that I have remembered that correctly). While such a point does not give any clues as to who the souls are it does indicate that the quality they would have acquired at the end of The Cycle is such that they can go straight home. Will these be the same 8 to sit on the 'tribunal' that we hear about every so often in the BKWSU Murlis?

Also I would like to know from any PBK, if Krishna's soul is in the topmost 8 souls or in the rosary of 108 souls (rudramala beads).

Dear Shivsena Bhai,
Omshanti. With reference to your above querry, I have received the following reply from ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) vide email no.22063/07 :

Prashna: Kya Krishna ki atma 8 ya 108 ki mala may shaamil hai?
Uttar: 8 ya 108 me Krishna ki soul nehi hai .

Question: Is the soul of Krishna included in the rosary of 8 or 108?
Ans: Krishna's soul is neither included in the rosary of 8 or 108.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Question: Is the soul of Krishna included in the rosary of 8 or 108?
Ans: Krishna's soul is neither included in the rosary of 8 or 108.

Dear arjun Bhai.

Thanks for the answer.
Please give the answer to my other question; Can Dashrathbhai (as the head of arya -- samajis) come in 108 rosary bead.

Shivsena