Remembering Shiva

The rosary of 108 is the rosary of the most elevated beings. How do we get threaded in this rosary? By remembering. By remembering who? By remembering the soul of Shiva.

Won't the seed souls of other religious groups come in the rosary of 108? If so, can it be said they remember Shiva in the prescribed manner as per PBK knowledge, or will they remember in there own manner as described by the head seed soul of there respective groups?

I totally agree with BKDimOk in that without knowledge how can we know even what is rememberance ... If it wasn't for PBK knowledge I am sure you (Andrey) would still be remembering in the way decribed by BKs or some other method.

Won't the seed souls of other religious groups come in the rosary of 108? If so, can it be said they remember Shiva in the prescribed manner as per PBK knowledge, or will they remember in there own manner as described by the head seed soul of there respective groups?

I don't know. For me "button slammer" Bhai has very well pointed that this remembance is not as if something is prescribed in a book and you follow. I know each soul will listen only to its own religious perceptor. Probably they have had a strong connection for many births. That although God himself is here they won't listen to Him directly. They would only listen when so-and-so says. That is why there it becomes direct and indirect connection, direct and indirect knowledge.

AndreyBhai

Yes, I can see what you are saying.

I don't know. For me "button slammer" Bhai has very we'll pointed that this remembance is not as if something is prescribed in a book and you follow.

Yes, I agree with this.

May I make a note without getting into tit for tat, that I was trying to make this same point in another or earlier thread and you was disagreeing with me.

Maybe as Button Slammer points out there is a language issue.

Murli are God's words, which He addresses to you personally ... There is no manmat in Murli.

No. I have had this confirmed by Senior Sisters. Some of the Murli is from Lekhraj Kirpalani. The BKWSU gets around this by say that Lekhraj Kirpalani/BB's versions are Shrimat as well but they are not. He get's things wrong, e.g. 1976 date Destruction, and is a lot more lokik than Shiva Baba.

There has been a some change in this since he left the body but he is still the worldly adviser.

I won't say, "in my opinion" about this. I say, ask a variety of Senior Sisters privately.

Junior Gopi Sisters will just say, "Baba, Baba, Baba ... " and not want to question and so you have to go to the top.

But it is said that we should always think it is ShivBaba speaking, and that it is Him that it responsible even if this - BB makes a mistake He'll (ShivBaba) put it right. So ... senior Sisters know better than Shiva speaking in the BB's body ...

Yes, it is said that whilst He speaks He emerges the children in front of Him, even though they may not be in front of Him physically, but whilst He speaks He also says you - that means you - one. So He speaks to one only in the Murlis, to only one child. God is one and His child is said one. This one child imbibes The Knowledge 100% and imbibes 100% incorporeal stage and becomes instrumental for other to imbibe The Knowledge and the incorporeal stage.

May I make a note without getting into tit for tat, that I was trying to make this same point in another or earlier thread and you was disagreeing with me.

Show where. If there has been a firm affirmative position regarding the mentioned matter, then why should i disagree.

even if this - Brahma Baba makes a mistake He'll (ShivBaba) put it right

Have we seen any evidence to support this? The point with regards the senior Sisters is that they lived with Lekhraj, saw it, heard it, you did not.

Actually, as you know The Knowledge was not always complete and so in the beginning it was a bit of a Bhakti cult for Brahma if you ask me and many of the Sisters said that they never stopped to ask who was talking when, when Shiva was incarnate or no.

They practised blind faith. A large part or all of Gyan is still the investment of blind faith.

Yes, these are said in the Murli. There this one question is asked - chidren whose lap have you come to? Those who said ShivBaba passed, those who said Brahma Baba failed. One cannot say by the face or the voice if Shiva is inside or not. Some have had one type of faith some another. Bhakti practice of adoring Brahma Baba starts later. In the beginning there used to be those who gave teachings to Mama Baba and make them do the drill.
Later when when Murlis used to be spoken through BB, when he left some might have thought, we lost him, and start remembering like widow. It happens due to not undertsanding the versions, not having faith that we'll remain together etc.
But the role of the Father has proofs also.

Omshanti. In the Murli that I was listening to yesterday at the mini Madhuban, Baba said one can remember Baba even in the latrine. Baba asked - does a child forget his/her Father while sitting in the latrine? He/she doesn't. Similarly, you children can also remember Baba even while sitting in the latrine.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Dear Sweet Souls,
To remember ShivBaba we need correct knowledge. ShivBaba has said, "Apne ko Aatma samajh Bap ko Yaad karo". Meaning, understanding yourselves as Soul remember The Godfather. It means, as a first step, I have to understand that I am soul. Next, with that understanding I, the soul, should remember The Godfather.

First step: To understand that I am not this body, but an immortal soul, ShivBaba has said to concentrate our mind in a minutest point of light situated in the forehead between the two eyebrows. Feel yourself as that minutest point of light. We have to practice this all the times as much as possible whenever we are awake i.e., while walking, talking, eating, etc., Also we have to think others as a minutest point of light, a soul like ourselves acting through their body.

Next step: In the first step we are feeling ourselves as soul, not as body. Now as a soul we are to remember ShivBaba, The Godfather.

Until now The Godfather has not revealed Himself through the final Mukarrar (destined) Rath (body). Please remember that ShivBaba has not come to this world to fool us. Whenever He wants to reveal His final Mukarrar (destined) Rath (body), He will do it directly and publicly. ShivBaba has said in Sakar Murlis that He does not inspire or instigate or murmur in somebody's ears. Maya -Ravan does these kinds of things, not The Godfather ShivBaba. So please, do not believe anyone who cannot take the responsibility of being a Mukarrar Rath (destined body) or those who do not directly accept that ShivBaba uses their body as Mukarrar Rath.

Some people try to fool others by indirectly talking about themselves and indirectly portraying themselves as ShivBaba. But will never directly say or accept that ShivBaba does service of the children through them. Please beware about such people. The excuse they give for this is as follows: They say that in Murlis ShivBaba has called those people who accept themselves as ShivBaba's Rath by the name 'Hiranyakashyap' (an asura like Ravan). But this reasoning is totally wrong. Nowhere in the Murli has ShivBaba said so. ShivBaba has called Hiranyaksahyap as those people who call themselves as Shiv. Not those who accept themselves as Rath of ShivBaba. On the other hand, I have read in Murli that ShivBaba does service even through children, but few humbly accept that it was not themselves but ShivBaba who did service. Whereas there are those who portray themselves in front in pride.

So dear souls Dada Lekhraj, who humbly accepted himself as Rath of ShivBaba, was not Hiranyakashyap. But those people are Hiranyakashyaps who do not have confidence in themselves as being Rath of ShivBaba, but indirectly portray themselves as ShivBaba. So beware of such people.

So finally, it is not possible till now to remember ShivBaba in His fianl Mukarrar Rath(Destined Body) because it is still not revealed and declared.
It is just enough to remember Him as Supreme and Benevolent of All, with Love in our Heart for Him. Our Love reaches Him.
Please spread this meassage.

yours,
Anamik.

So dear souls Dada Lekhraj, who humbly accepted himself as Rath of ShivBaba, was not Hiranyakashyap. But those people are Hiranyakashyaps who do not have confidence in themselves as being Rath of ShivBaba, but indirectly portray themselves as ShivBaba. So beware of such people.

So finally, it is not possible till now to remember ShivBaba in His fianl Mukarrar Rath(Destined Body) because it is still not revealed and declared.

Dear Anamik Bhai,
Omshanti. If you believe that the final/permanent Chariot of ShivBaba has not been revealed so far, then when would He get revealed? What kind of a Chariot do you consider Dada Lekhraj to be? Temporary or Mukarrar?

If Dada Lekhraj is not the Mukarrar rath (permanent Chariot) then, in what form should the children remember ShivBaba ever since Dada Lekhraj's demise, because ShivBaba has said in the Murlis that He should be remembered not as a point of light in the Soul World but through His physical Chariot.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Dear Anamik,
Welcome to the forum.
The same post has been made in the BK and PBK subforums. One post in the Common Room subforum would be sufficient as I understand members are able to post in any subforum.

Some people try to fool others by indirectly talking about themselves and indirectly portraying themselves as ShivBaba. But will never directly say or accept that ShivBaba does service of the children through them. Please beware about such people.

Dear Anamik Bhai,
Omshanti. If you don't mind could you make yourself more clear. From your writings it appears as if you are a sympathiser of BKs, but at the same time you say that the final Chariot is yet to be revealed. From your words it is clear that you are warning people against Baba Virendra Dev Dixit.

I wish to humbly know whether you are aware of the final Chariot of Shiv which you believe is not yet revealed to the world.

The excuse they give for this is as follows: They say that in Murlis ShivBaba has called those people who accept themselves as ShivBaba's Rath by the name 'Hiranyakashyap' (an asura like Ravan). But this reasoning is totally wrong. Nowhere in the Murli has ShivBaba said so. ShivBaba has called Hiranyaksahyap as those people who call themselves as Shiv. Not those who accept themselves as Rath of ShivBaba.

I don't have any Murli quote readily available to prove the above statement. But it is definitely very famous in the path of worship (Hindu mythology) that those who claim themselves to be God are called Hiranyakashyaps. Claiming to be God or the medium of God, in my view is one and the same because as per the Murlis ShivBaba means a combination of incorporeal and corporeal. So claiming to be the chariots of Shiv is as good as claiming to be God.

Baba Veerendra Dev Dikshit has not claimed himself that he is the Chariot of Shiv. It is only the PBKs who say so. But I am aware of at least two Ex-PBKs (Shri Dashrath Patel and Shri Nagraj) whose followers say that the soul of their spiritual Father is the Supreme Soul Himself.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Shri Nagraj whose followers say that the soul of their spiritual Father is the Supreme Soul Himself.

Shri Nagraj?
Who does he represent and for how long?

So finally, it is not possible till now to remember ShivBaba in His final Mukarrar Rath(Destined Body) because it is still not revealed and declared. It is just enough to remember Him as Supreme and Benevolent of All, with Love in our Heart for Him. Our Love reaches Him.

Anamik.
Until the final Chariot is declared how are we to remember ShivaBaba:-
In the Soul World as a point of light?
In the Avyakt form of BrahmaBaba?
I think you are saying not in the Chariot of Virendra Dev Dixit?
How did BKs remember ShivaBaba before 1969?

If Dada Lekhraj is not the Mukarrar rath (permanent Chariot) then, in what form should the children remember ShivBaba ever since Dada Lekhraj's demise, because ShivBaba has said in the Murlis that He should be remembered not as a point of light in the Soul World but through His physical Chariot.

Arjun.
Can you provide the Murli quotes that describe that ShivaBaba should be remembered in the Chariot?

Dear Arjun Bhai,
Please read my post [ Subject: ATTENTION PLEASE:- "Gita: Who and When?" ].

I am giving you few Murli points.

Avyakt Vani dt. 30.6.74 :

"Brahma ka part sthapana ke karya main ant tak noondha hua hai. Jab tak sthapana ka karya sampanna nahee hua hai tab tak nimitta bani huee Aatma ( i.e. Dada Lekharaj ) ka part samapt nahee hona hai. Vah tab tak doosra part nahee baja sakate. Jagatpita ke naye jagat kee rachana sampanna karaneka part drama main noondha hua hai. Manushya srushti kee sarva vanshavali rachane ka Brahma ke liye hee gayan hai Great Great Grandfather."

In English: Brahma's part in the work of creation ( or Generation or establishment) is recorded till end. Unless and untill the work of creation is completed the assigned soul's ( i.e. Dada Lekharaj) part will not end. Till then he cannot play another role. The part of Jagatpita (Father of the world) of completing the creation of the new world is recorded in the drama. The praise for Creation of all the races of humanity is only for Brahma as Great Great Grandfather.


It is Avyakt Vani of 1974, and it is clearly stated that Brahma i.e. Dada Lekharaj's soul has to complete his duty of creating all races of human beings. And the word "JAGATPITA" is used for Brahma. It means that although Brahma ( Dada Lekharaj) has left his corporeal body in 1969 January, still he cannot play another part other than of Brahma. But as you know Jagatpita has to be in this Jagat (world) with His own body so as to be called as JagatPita. So it is clear that Brahma (Dada Lekharaj) even though lef his Body in January 1969, he has taken rebirth and have his own another physical body at present. So, now coming to your query of temporary and Mukarrar Rath, my answer is that the Body by name of Dada Lekharaj was temporary rath and the body which that soul has taken after January 1969 is The Mukarrar Rath or Bhageerath (lucky Chariot) of Supreme Soul Shiv.
Now you may ask, then who comes in Mt. Abu in seasons. To this my answer is the following Murli point.

Sakar Murli dt. 2.4.85, page 3:

"Tum log Brahman khilate ho. Aatma ko bulate ho na. Yah saari drama main noondh hai. Aise nahee ki Aatma koi shareer chodkar aati hai. Yah rasam riwaaz drama main hai. Ismain moonjhane kee baat nahee."

In English: You people feed brahman (There is custom in India of feeding brahman after death of relatives thinking that the soul comes to have the food through the brahman). Call the Aatma, is'nt it. All this is recorded in the drama. It is not that the soul comes leaving it's (next) body. This custom is in the drama. There is nothing to confuse in it.


Dear Arjun Bhai, you have said about me as sympathiser of BK's. I would like to say that first of all I have sympathy towards myself, and next I sympathise all the rest of the world, including BK's, PBK's, my family members and other people of this world. Do'nt you see the sufferings all over the world and feel it.

Next. Yes I am warning people against Dixitji. Why?
Telling about myself, I had nice experience in BK's and in Mt. Abu. I did have few very spiritual experiences in Kampil and with Dixitji. I have felt the love through Dixitji. I believed what Dixitji said. I was not disturbed by the dates given by Dixitji. But yes. When Dixitji started telling that second part of ShivBaba is completing and another personality will be revealed in the near future. It made me to think. Love is one thing, and Knowledge is another thing. I still Love Dixitji. But will not believe what he says. I have started to read and churn The Knowledge myself and have stopped believing without giving thinking over it myself. And I expect and want others also to do so.

You have asked whether I know about the final Chariot. Yes I feel that it is the Chariot of Dada Lekharaj in his next birth. But which is his present body or who is he at present that I do'nt know.

Now talking about Hiranyakashyap. I still stick to my point that ShivBaba has called only those people as Hiranyakashyap who call themselves as Shiv. ShivBaba has taken only the responsibility of Dada Lekharaj for whatever is told through him. In my opinion you are doing mistake by thinking Dada Lekharaj as Hiranykasyap. There is difference in acknowledging that ShivBaba is using his/her body to do service and boasting of onself as the Chariot of ShivBaba. What problem is there for Dixitji to once acknowledge himself as the Mukarrar Rath of ShivBaba. Why is he wasting time in indirectly proving himself as ShivBaba's Mukarrar Rath. Is it his guilty consciousness which is stopping him from doing so. Why has not ShivBaba even once said in the class through Dixitji that He takes responsiblity of that Chariot (Dixitji) throughout this 30 years.

O.K. It is nice discussing points with real students of ShivBaba.

Yours,
Anamik.

Dear Brother John,
Accurate rememberance will be possible only if we become completely soul conscious. And also there is a Sakar Murli point in which ShivaBaba has said that there will be true Love for ShivBaba only when we are soul conscious.

Sakar Murli dt. 1.6.85, page 1:

"Real Love Baap se tab ho jab apneko Aatma samjhe."

In English: when (you) understand yourself as Aatma then only will have real Love with Baba.

Also I have read in Murli different ways of rememberance. I have also read in a Murli( do'nt know date) that if you are soul conscious then Father is with you. I think there is no need to confuse ourself in how to remember. Just remember Him as a point of light feeling yourself also as a point of light in the forehead between the two eyebrows.
Accurate rememberance is only possible by accurate knowledge of self soul and Mukarrar Rath of The Supreme Soul. Why waste our time till Mukarrar Rath is revealed. Till that time we can know ourself i.e. what is aakari stage, what is beej roop, what is bindi roop. This knowledge cannot be told, we have to experience ourself by practicing for it. Company of people who are in that stage helps us to attain that stage ourself. Best bet is the company of our own self i.e. soul. We should have Love and yearning for That soul conscious stage. By having knowledge of these different stages and their experience we can accurately understand and remember ShivBaba when The Mukarrar Rath will be revealed.
So, better know your-self and practice soul consciousness first. In Hindi there is a saying " Khud ko jaano to Khuda ko jaano." Meaning - Know thyself so that you can know God.

Yours,
Anamik.