Accurate Yaad (Accurate Remembrance)

Dear Brother Shivsena:

Let me first thank you for you input.

What i feel is, there can never be any accurate rememberence of ShivBaba during the shooting period of this subtle behad drama.

What is the definition of "non-shooting period"? Is this period different for different souls?

The words of Shiva are again to be interpreted in behad ka sense ie. when Krishna's soul becomes 100% saakari through the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit and Ram becomes 100% nirakari through the same body, then you have to remember nirakari stage of Ramshivbaba (and not bindi) in the same body which now belongs to Krishna (sakaari bap Prajapita).This is how i remember Ramshivbaba (the practical form of bindi Shiv).

1. Do you stabilize in the soul conscious state (like the Murli dictates) before you remember him?
2. Does the Murli state "Sakar mein nirakar ko Yaad karo" or is it only in clarifications?

Om Shanti - cal

Is there any objective way of knowing when, and who, is in a "soul-conscious" state?

For me, it always seemed impossible to know who was and who was just pretending ... to themselves and to others.

What are the clear and reproducible symptoms of being "soul-conscious"?
What proportion of BK/PBK followers do you think attain and sustain this state?
Are these attainments also subject to the entropic decline that PBK consider applies even within the Yagya?

I think when the soul is in soul-consciousness the mind becomes peaceful and fixed, it does not go here and there. May be in soul-consciousness there is no sufferring experienced, but these are subjective, so from outside it may look as if the face is glowing and happy. In soulconciousness also the soul should know its many births.

Although it is believed that every soul is to reach the soul-conscious stage it is a matter of climbing and falling. There is also such a stage where there is no falling anymore. Who has reached it? It is possible we all reach it together for it is said we go together, but it is matter of everyone's effort also and some may reach it in advance - the ones that will go with Him and others later - who will be in the procession.

If we are to speak of percentage i think we should speak of very little percentages. There was some discussion about what percentage after the course catch Baba only and no one else and it has been said that it is not even 1 percent.

I believe Yaad passes through stages, but it may be also true with time and practice it gets refined, becomes firm and we remember others less, because it is also our rising. It has been said about the complementary role of purity and Yaad that the more we remember the more pure we become and if one is more pure one remembers easily, for souls become alike and there is attraction between alike things, but it may also be so that those who are more impure they remember more for they are more unhappy - as it is said that everyone remembers God in sorrow and no one in happiness.

What is the definition of "non-shooting period"? Is this period different for different souls?

I have never heard of 'non-shooting period'. I know of only one thing that the shooting period of dwapur-kaliyug or Brahma ki raat is for all BKs and PBKs.

1. Do you stabilize in the soul conscious state (like the Murli dictates) before you remember him?
2. Does the Murli state "Sakar mein nirakar ko Yaad karo" or is it only in clarifications?

i have mentioned before that no one can stabilise in any form of soul-consciousness during the shooting period. This period of 70 years is just given for the study (sara madaar padayee par hai) to understand The Knowledge fully and to know the 100% nirakari stage of Rambap (as ShivBaba) and to know who is the practical form of maya-ravan whom we have to fight and overcome. Only after the individual study is complete then will start the real RajYoga study (sacchi Gita Gyan) which will be taught only to 108 king souls and only when Ramshivbaba teaches RajYoga that we wil be able to stay in soul-conscious stage.

I have never heard the quote "Sakar mein nirakar ko Yaad karo" in Murlis (if anyone can give me the date then i will be most thankful). I have just heard that this is a quote from Avyakt Vani but again i do not have the date.
shivsena.

Dear ex-l.

A very valid and logical set of queries.

Is there any objective way of knowing when, and who, is in a "soul-conscious" state?

There is absolutely no way of knowing this in the shooting period, for the simple reason that when Ram ie no. 1 soul has not achieved his 100% nirakari stage then all other souls who are behind him just cannot be assessed.
Only when Ram reaches his 100% nirakari stage then numberwise those who have recognised HIM will automatically achieve that stage.

For me, it always seemed impossible to know who was and who was just pretending ... to themselves and to others.

Yes - your observation is very true. I also used to wonder when sitting in collective meditation on how to have a fool-proof method to assess one's stage during meditation; but now i know for sure that both BKs and PBKs are practising hathyoga and not RajYoga.

What are the clear and reproducible symptoms of being "soul-conscious"?
What proportion of BK/PBK followers do you think attain and sustain this state?

At present - none. In my opinion, the true soul-conscious stage will be reached only in the end when the subtle body of light can move out of this gross physical body at will (which is known as anth-vahak sharir mentioned in av. Vanis) and also shown in many movies.

No one so far has even attained 1% of soul-conscious stage because it is either 100% or none at all. i do not believe in percentage of soul-conscious stage. As you rightly said, i feel all are just pretending (fooling themselves and others) to be soul-conscious state but they are miles away from that stage.

shivsena.

This sort of fits in with the PBK concept that the states BKs experience are basically visions/rewards for their "Bhakti" and the ex-BK point of view, that they are basically experiencing self-hypnotising and inducing mental states ... as many others do.

By hatha Yoga, you mean that they are just forcing themselves to sit still and not move for long period experiencing nothing, like in Zen or Tratak meditation?

Another "ancient Yoga technique", Tratak is a Yoga exercise which involves steady and continuous gazing at a point of concentration, i.e. Antar (internal) Tratak and Bahir (external) Tratak. It is also said to extend beyond a simple gaze and be about "attuning to one's higher-self". With regular practice a seeker is said to be able to experience the beauty it adds to his life, be filled with will power, determination and focus and the mental energy which was dispersed into various thoughts comes to one single point and then sinks too into vast silence. Soothing music is often also used as a back drop facilitates the Tratak yogi to absorb the technique easily and many individuals report wonderful and astonishing experiences ...

I remember one mature BK I knew, who was responsible for and paid the mortgage on the local center for a LONG time before he left (It was in his name as usual) and was even caught paying it after, admitted up to others that during all his time as a BK, he never had any experiences at all. How many of those little old ladies that touch the hems of the Dadi's saris and give their 5 rupees to Baba are being asked how they are getting on? And how does it differ from what they might feel on the path of devotion?

Folks are having experiences though. Into the equation above, I must add "psychic overshadowing" or channelling. They think they are having an experience, they might just be auto-hypnotised, may be they are even being overshadow by some ghost, holy or unholy. For me, the auto-hypnosis is to help the open of the self to other spiritualistic influences.

To the list, you might add, "out of the body" or "astral traveling" like experiences and ... of course ... an element where I might be completely wrong and lacking. What would be useful is if one could sit down and make a list of all the types of experiences that might be going on rather than presuming that 'everyone is having the same one'. I don't deny that people are having experiences, are we honest and informed enough about them, e.g. technically, why the tail off in intensity after the Honeymoon Period?

No one so far has even attained 1% of soul-conscious stage because it is either 100% or none at all. i do not believe in percentage of soul-conscious stage. As you rightly said, i feel all are just pretending (fooling themselves and others) to be soul-conscious state but they are miles away from that stage.

You say that you believe in the Sakar Murlis spoken through Dada Lekhraj. In those Murlis, ShivBaba mentions about the sato, rajo, tamo stages not just of soul consciousness but also of vices. How can we say that someone is either hundred percent criminal or not a criminal at all? Then there will not be varying levels of punishment at all. Will you agree with a Court if it hands over a death sentence for someone who steals a mango from a vegetable market?

Similarly, there should be different stages of soul consciousness also. If there are not different stages of soul consciousness then where is the need to call Silver Age as Silver Age. Why not call it just Golden Age for 2500 years?
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Similarly, there should be different stages of soul consciousness also. If there are not different stages of soul consciousness then where is the need to call Silver Age as Silver Age. Why not call it just Golden Age for 2500 years?
Arjun

Dear arjun Bhai.
What we are discussing here is the soul-conscious stage in this behad ka Sangamyugi drama in the so called Godly organisation. Everyone knows about the broad drama where we all start falling from the first day of Satyug but i would not call it decreasing soul-consciousness in broad drama as we are never aware of the soul and Supreme Soul in the broad drama. i would prefer to call it decreasing divinity in human beings as they begin their descent from 16* pure (100% pure) in Satyug to 100% impure (no kalaa) at the end of Kaliyug.

When there is no knowledge of soul then there is no question of being soul-conscious. Only when The Knowledge of soul and Supreme Soul starts in Sangamyug from 1937, that is when the soul-conscious state becomes relevant, and i strongly feel that up until now no one has understood the actual meaning of soul and Supreme Soul (it is said in Murlis " bhal kahete hain ki brahkuti ke beech mein chamakta ajab sitara; par ab tak na atma ko jaante hain, na paramatma ko jaante hain") - meaning that "it is said that there shines a star in between the two eyes; but uptill now no one has understood the meaning of soul or the Supreme Soul."

shivsena.

But, there was no knowledge of the "Supreme Soul" in 1937 ... (there might have been 'sensation' but they had The Knowledge all wrong).

So, many BKs claim to have a variety of different experiences. From your and the PBK point of view, they have not got accurate knowledge of the Father.

What is the basis for each of the variety of their experiences?

Everyone knows about the broad drama where we all start falling from the first day of Satyug but i would not call it decreasing soul-consciousness in broad drama as we are never aware of the soul and Supreme Soul in the broad drama. i would prefer to call it decreasing divinity in human beings as they begin their descent from 16* pure (100% pure) in Satyug to 100% impure (no kalaa) at the end of Kaliyug.

The Murlis spoken by ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) that you believe definitely speak about the awareness of soul among the deities for 2500 years.

This sort of fits in with the PBK concept that the states BKs experience are basically visions/rewards for their "Bhakti" and the ex-BK point of view, that they are basically experiencing self-hypnotising and inducing mental states ... as many others do. By hatha Yoga, you mean that they are just forcing themselves to sit still and not move for long period experiencing nothing, like in Zen or Tratak meditation?

Dear ex-l.
Yes - i absolutely mean to say that every BK and PBK is practising hatyoga in its fullest form, like you said forcing themselves to sit still and not moving any part of their body, which is absolutely the reverse of what is said in Murlis. It is said in Murlis, "Remember me at all times while walking, talking, eating and doing any karma'' (like a true karmayogi) - "chalte firte utthe baithe sotte jagte mujhe Yaad karo". Children have never been given any direction to sit in only one position and remember God. Do we remember our Lokik Father by sitting in one position or do we remember him all throughout the day with utmost ease? (Similarly God should be remembered with ease all throughout the day).

shivsena.

Dear Brother shivsena,

There is one Avyakt Vani, of around 2000, i can quote if it is needed that says that children are of few types (please note, i will not reproduce well, but the point i noted) of children some are practicing ... some are ... and some are experiencing liberation in life. It is said around 2000, that at present some children are experiencing liberation in life.

Dear Brother ex-l,

The experiences of the BKs come due to their feelings, thoughts, bhavna and devotion.

Yes - i absolutely mean to say that every BK and PBK is practising hatyoga in its fullest form, like you said forcing themselves to sit still and not moving any part of their body, which is absolutely the reverse of what is said in Murlis. It is said in Murlis, "Remember me at all times while walking, talking, eating and doing any karma'' (like a true karmayogi) - "chalte firte utthe baithe sotte jagte mujhe Yaad karo". Children have never been given any direction to sit in only one position and remember God. Do we remember our Lokik Father by sitting in one position or do we remember him all throughout the day with utmost ease? (Similarly God should be remembered with ease all throughout the day).

Dear Brother,
Omshanti. I had requested you several times in the past that you should not write as a representative of all the BKs and PBKs. But you continue to do so and in the process hurt their feelings.

How can you say that "every BK and PBK is practising hathyoga in its fullest form"? Are you watching the activity of every BK and PBK through your supernatural powers to give this statement? Even ShivBaba through Brahma Baba or Avyakt BapDada through Gulzar Dadi has never categorised all the Brahmin children into a single such negative category. So, your statement only gives credence to Andrey Bhai's remarks that you are acting as ShivBaba yourself.

By the way what do you mean by hathyoga in its fullest form? I cannot say about BKs because they do organize special meditation programmes where BKs are required to sit for many hours in meditation. That could be termed hathyoga to some extent. But PBKs practice collective mediation only for a limited period (generally it is at the most one hour) before the commencement of the Murli class. If PBKs do that position in a sitting posture how can you call it 'hathyoga in its fullest form'? Do you expect them to dance or move around in a meditation class? Unlike the BK classes, the PBKs are allowed the freedom to stretch their legs if they feel tired during meditation. And it is not even necessary for them to sit in 'Padmaasan'. They can sit in any comfortable posture.

As I live far away from the local mini-Madhubans, I generally reach the mini-Madhubans for the weekly class only after the meditation hour. But even when I am able to reach in time for meditation hour, I never sit in the same posture for the entire period and keep changing my sitting posture after a few minutes to be comfortable. During my entire stint as a PBK since mid-1990s nobody has directed me to sit in any particular posture or objected to my sitting in any posture. Then how can you say that every PBK is practicing hathyoga in its fullest form?

You write in your posts that you believe the entire Advanced Knowledge given by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) to be false and I suppose you have stopped listening to all the Murli clarifications and discussion CDs. If it is true, then how can you know what kind of discussions are taking place between ShivBaba and the PBKs. For your kind information, I was listening to one of the latest Discussion CD No.445 recorded at a Gitapathshala in Bhilai on 19.11.07 and one of the PBK mothers had a detailed discussion on the same topic that you mentioned above, i.e. karmayoga. I will try to note down the script if the time permits, but during that discussion ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) spoke about how PBKs could do Yoga even while translating Murlis at Amrit Vela and how mothers could do Yoga while attending to household works.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

I am thinking about ShivBaba when typing this post. Are you ?

Omshanti. I had requested you several times in the past that you should not write as a representative of all the BKs and PBKs. But you continue to do so and in the process hurt their feelings. How can you say that "every BK and PBK is practising hathyoga in its fullest form"? Are you watching the activity of every BK and PBK through your supernatural powers to give this statement? Even ShivBaba through Brahma Baba or Avyakt BapDada through Gulzar Dadi has never categorised all the Brahmin children into a single such negative category. So, your statement only gives credence to Andrey Bhai's remarks that you are acting as ShivBaba yourself. Arjun

Dear arjun Bhai.

I am just writing with reference to what the Murlis say "jab RajYoga hai toh hatyoga nahin, aur jab hatyoga hai toh RajYoga nahin" (meaning ''when there is hatyoga then there is no RajYoga and when there is RajYoga then there is no hatyoga'').

Also it is said in Murlis ''when there is Gyan there is no Bhakti and when there is Bhakti there is no Gyan" and also Bhakti is connected to hatyoga and Gyan is connected to RajYoga. So i think if i speak from Murlis, then you should have no objection.

You think that i am hurting their feelings and i think that i am making them aware that neither BK knowledge is the truth nor the Advanced Knowledge is the truth but the truth is there only in the Murlis of Shiva; and if this appears bitter to BKs or PBKs then i cannot help it. I will keep posting my views with reference to Murlis (andhon ki lathi banana hai).

shivsena.