Back to Basics of the nature of Virendra Dev Dixit and being a Chariot

Basic queries of the nature of Virendra Dev Dixit and the Advanced Knowledge.

As a BK, I assumed ShivaBaba was speaking the Murli and it was made very clear that it was Shiva speaking and not Brahma. The Murli says, "Brahma listens", so within the soul of Brahma there must be the awareness that someone else is speaking, "I am not speaking" and therefore his intellect was disengaged from the process and he was disengaged from making his larynx move that produced the words of the Murli.

• Did the BKs ever query this or were they just like devotees saying, "yes, yes, without ever really thinking about it"?

Well, Brahma is not available to answer.

So we move onto the next alleged Chariot Virendra Dev Dixit, whom we can ask questions of, but there is a mystic veil thrown over this topic. I have not seen any clear answers.

• Surely Virendra Dev Dixit must know whether he is engaging his larynx and intellect to speak Murli clarifications?

For a moment let's forget the, "Shiva is so subtle, when he comes when he goes nobody knows" vague answer and get down to the nitty gritty.

• Is Virendra Dev Dixit actually aware that Shiva is controlling his larynx to speak or not?

Omshanti.

As regards Brahma Baba, I do not know about his initial days as the medium of incorporeal Shiv, but there are many references in the revised Sakar Murlis published by BKs which suggest that he did know and accept that he is the medium of Shiv.

As regards Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, I do not know what goes on in his mind but if anyone puts this question to him, he would never accept that incorporeal Shiv enters into him.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

As regards Brahma Baba, I do not know about his initial days as the medium of incorporeal Shiv, but there are many references in the revised Sakar Murlis published by BKs which suggest that he did know and accept that he is the medium of Shiv.

Would you be able to post any such points?

As regards Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit, I do not know what goes on in his mind, but if anyone puts this question to him, he would never accept that incorporeal Shiv enters into him.

Do you mean in private or public or both? If Virendra Dev Dixit can not accept it, then how can PBKs accept it?

I notice in one of the Q&A's with Virendra Dev Dixit, it is said ShivaBaba answers the questions so how can this fit together? Plus there is this Q&A recently posted

Question No.143: When BKs print Q&A along with Sakar Murli PBKs say that it is a shooting of Bhaktimarg. So, is the discussion with PBKs after the Murli class not Bhakti?
Ans: In that bodily beings print questions and answers, and here children ask and ShivBaba gives answers.

Surely this is some kind of double speak?

As regards Brahma Baba, I do not know about his initial days as the medium of incorporeal Shiv, but there are many references in the revised Sakar Murlis published by BKs which suggest that he did know and accept that he is the medium of Shiv.

But we do not know where those "initial days" were.

Sorry to beat on my drum but ... no mention of Shiva from Lekhraj Kirpalani and the BKs until after 1949 ... Until the BKs comes up with some answers, it would appear that Shiva in Lekhraj Kirpalani was as incognito as Shiva in Virendra Dev Dixit.

(This actually strengthen Virendra Dev Dixit's and the Mata's claims. Indeed, it might be one basis for them).

Would you be able to post any such points?

There are many such references in the Sakar Murlis narrated through Brahma Baba. For example he says that when he takes bath he thinks that he is pouring water over ShivBaba. Or that when he eats he thinks as if he is feeding ShivBaba. Then there is reference about he being a village lad, an ordinary Brahmin or a trader who was caught by ShivBaba to establish the Godly family. I don't have the Murli quotes readily available but there is a somewhat similar reference in the revised Sakar Murli dated 16.05.07 "Children know that Maya makes us forget (the Father) every moment. But they do feel that - we are sitting face to face with Baba. Incorporeal Baba is sitting on this Chariot."

Do you mean in private or public or both? If Veerendra Dev Dixit can not accept it, then how can PBKs accept it?

Both in private and in public, he would not accept that incorporeal Shiv enters into him. PBKs accept it on the basis of The Knowledge that is received through his medium.

I notice in one of the Q&A's with Veerendra Dev Dixit, it is said ShivaBaba answers the questions so how can this fit together? Plus there is this Q&A recently posted ... Surely this is some kind of double speak?

When PBKs ask him questions related to Godly knowledge, the questions are answered by ShivBaba with complete authority. But if a pointed question is asked if Shiv is present in him, then he would not accept it. God does not say that He is God. His vibrations, words and actions speak for Him.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

There are many such references in the Sakar Murlis narrated through Brahma Baba. For example he says that when he takes bath he thinks that he is pouring water over ShivBaba. Or that when he eats he thinks as if he is feeding ShivBaba.

Is not that just a direct adoption of a way of thinking that is common in Vaishnavism?

I am still waiting to discover when and how he became finally aware that Shiva was in him.

Dear Brother john,

Maybe the larynx matter is not so. Maybe it is said that i use the mouth. It does not mean that he controls the muscles, because he is said to not have any conciousness of the body, otherwise he will be concious of larynx.

Maybe using the mouth means that The Knowledge comes from the mouth. I know from some clarifications that, for example, before 1976 Baba (via Virendra Dev Dixit) is incognito and he churns. It is not the Supreme Soul who churns, but Supreme Soul somehow guides this churning process and gives insight.

For example, it is said that he (the soul of Shiva), also inspires the filmsongs that are used in the Murli to be craeted. How? However, it is said that he does not teach through inspiration means we listen to knowledge from a mouth of the Chariot. Maybe it is a matter of surrendering the mind. Brahma Baba aslo used to interfere in the Murli. Now the soul of Rama does not interfere.

Maybe the larynx matter is not so. Maybe it is said that I use the mouth. It does not mean that he controls the muscles, because he is said to not have any conciousness of the body, otherwise he will be concious of larynx.

Yes, good point.

When PBKs ask him questions related to Godly knowledge, the questions are answered by ShivBaba with complete authority. But if a pointed question is asked if Shiv is present in him, then he would not accept it. God does not say that He is God. His vibrations, words and actions speak for Him.

Yet in the Sakar Murlis it is stated that it is ShivaBaba speaking the Murli. Revised Sakar Murli 13/04/04;

The One who is teaching you children is the Incorporeal. His name is Shiva. Shiv Baba doesn’t have a body of His own. Everyone else would say: This is my body. Who said this? The soul said: This is my body. However, all of those are worldly, physical studies and there are many different subjects in those. There are so many different titles such as BA etc. Here, there is just the one name and it is only the One who is teaching you. Only the one Father comes and teaches you. So you have to remember the Father. The unlimited Father is teaching us. What is His name? His name is Shiva. It isn’t that He is beyond name and form. Names are given to the body of human beings. It would be said: This is the body of So-and-so. However, Shiv Baba does not have a body. Human beings are given names for their body, whereas it is only the one Incorporeal Father whose name is Shiva. When He comes here to teach you, His name is still Shiva. This body does not belong to Him.

Here it says ShivaBaba does not have a body. Whereas in Advanced Knowledge it says ShivaBaba means with a body or through the body of the Chariot.

The question of how Father Shiva uses the body is intriguing. During these situations, what is the state of Virendra Dev Dixit soul?

In the case of Gulzar Dadi, her soul is in an unconcious state when BapDada enters her, so she (DG soul) is unaware of the activities of BapDada. The body is fully controlled by BapDada. So for example, sweating and breathing are controlled as well as the need to urinate.

In the case of Virendra Dev Dixit body, does the soul of Father Shva "merge" into Virendra Dev Dixit's, so that the body does not recognise who is controlling it, if then is Virendra Dev Dixit's soul aware of the presence of Father Shiva? There is a divine connection.

So for example, sweating and breathing are controlled as well as the need to urinate.

Not to mention the banana eating skills. I suppose it could be proof for the BKs. Can Virendra Dev Dixit eat bananas or not? (Reference to the BKs' proof it is God in Gulzar because Gulzar does not like bananas but "god" is happy to eat them.

Does Virendra Dev Dixit go for a pee when Shiva is inside him? Or, at least, who pees? It is details such as these that will really seal the matter one way or another. Its another of the miracles of the BKWSU that BapDada sits it out for entire sessions without going, despite getting a new pair of girlie knickers to wear.

Or do they stick them in a nappy? I never asked that.

Does Veerendra Dev Dixit go for a pee when Shiva is inside him? Or, at least, who pees? It is details such as these that will really seal the matter one way or another. Its another of the miracles of the BKWSU that BapDada sits it out for entire sessions without going, despite getting a new pair of girlie knickers to wear.

A reminder that the majority of the watching audience are also generally able to stick it out for the entire session without having to go to loo ...

In the case of Veerendra Dev Dixit body, does the soul of Father Shva "merge" into Veerendra Dev Dixit's, so that the body does not recognise who is controlling it, if then is Veerendra Dev Dixit's soul aware of the presence of Father Shiva? There is a divine connection.

Whether Baba Virendra Dev Dixit's soul is aware of the presence of Father Shiv or not cannot be answered by us because he does not accept the presence of Father Shiv in him at all.

But, I don't think the Soul of Father Shiv merges with the soul of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, because in connection with the querry raised on this forum I recently talked to Him and He said that the soul of Confluence-Aged Ram also speaks in between when the incidents of his personal life is mentioned during the Murlis/Discussions.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Not to mention the banana eating skills. I suppose it could be proof for the BKs. Can Veerendra Dev Dixit eat bananas or not? (Reference to the BKs' proof it is God in Gulzar because Gulzar does not like bananas but "god" is happy to eat them.

Yes, he can eat bananas, but now a days, his diet is generally controlled by the nimit Sisters/mothers to suit his health.

But I have never seen Avyakt BapDada eat Bananas. At the most I have seen him sipping some water served in silver glasses, that too after many hours of his arrival.

Does Veerendra Dev Dixit go for a pee when Shiva is inside him? Or, at least, who pees? It is details such as these that will really seal the matter one way or another.

Although the drishti + Murli class + discussion class combined together does not last more than 4 to 5 hours at a stretch, I have never seen him go out in between to relieve himself. He is also served some water or fruit juice in between the Murli class, but not in silver glasses. I don't know if any PBK (surrendered or otherwise) has served him water or food in silver utensils. In fact, once while travelling with him in a train, he opened a food packet to give a simple toli (murmura) on pieces of newspaper. He too ate the toli holding it in a newspaper shaped like a cone. It is a common sight at the roadside Pavbhaji stalls in India.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

The Supreme Soul Shiva is called abhogta and akarta. The one who does not enjoy pleasures and does not do anything. In the Murlis it is asked, "do i eat the food, i just take the fragrance". It is said, "whatever i am as i am it is difficult to understand" (or no one can understand, or very few understand i don't remember exactly but it ws something with this sense).

We eat enjoy, have conciousness of the body, he does not have any. Maybe for one second all souls become like him with the same experience, with no conciousness of the body, then with years, little by little, consciousnes of eyes, mouth etc grow, until the end of iron age when we are fully body-concious.

The Supreme Soul Shiva is called abhogta and akarta. The one who does not enjoy pleasures and does not do anything. We eat enjoy, have conciousness of the body, he does not have any.

I keep asking about this. It is not answered. I just feel that if the BKWSU is put u nder scrutiny and expected to answer, then it is only fair that Virendra Dev Dixit and PBKs.

If a child is burning in fire, then will the Father save his child first or will he run away himself? (Someone said – he will save him). First he will save the child. ....If the Father is truthful and if the child is truthful towards its Father, then the duty of the Father is to save his child first. For that even if he has to jump into the fire of sex-lust himself. Even then he will certainly save him. So who is Father? The one, who is the Father of the entire world, is the Father of the first leaf also.

What is mean by "jump into the fire of sex-lust", does this refer to Virendra Dev Dixit sexual relationships? I say I have no problem with the idea, I just t hink it is part of the bigger picture that needs to be resolved.

My main concern is that if this is what the BKWSU and Vishnu Party are using against him, then we should now about the accurate version rather than just let them put their spin on it.