Who is the God of Gita - Krishna, Ram or Shiva Baba?

Brother ex-l,

'Divya' means 'divine' and in terms of BK terminology 'Didar' means 'divine vision'. In lokik terms 'Didar means 'sight, look, interview, meeting, etc.' (as per dictionary)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

'Divya' means 'divine' and in terms of BK terminology 'Didar' means 'divine vision'. In lokik terms 'Didar means 'sight, look, interview, meeting, etc.' (as per dictionary)

So Divya Drashti means "Divine Drishti". Drashti = Drishti? My feeling from all this material is that the "Divine Vision" they are talking about in the early days is more to do with the divine 'visions' they were being given ... and that all and everyone were receiving from Lekhraj Kirpalani and the Sisters ... rather than the weak sort of drishti as it is given these days.

It is starting to strike me that there has been a general lessening of the psychic powers and wonders through the BKWSU and that now they are a sort of Bhakti copy worshipping the Lekhraj Kirpalani of that golden BK age.

I suspect this is close to what is taught in the PBK community but I want to make it clear to the critics within the BKWSU who follow our conversation that I am not a PBK, have not studied PBK lore, and am coming to these very basic conclusion from the BKWSU's own published (but covered up) materials.

Further more, I suggest that any BK of a normal intelligence would have come up to similar consclusions had the BKWSU leadership not hidden, destroyed and re-written much of its history and teachings.

So Divya Drashti means "Divine Drishti". Drashti = Drishti?

Yes, Drashti=Drishti. In lokik terms, Divya Drishti refers to the power granted by Shri Krishna to Arjuna to view his gigantic form (viraat roop). In BK/PBK terminology, Divya Drishti refers to the third eye of intellect to realize the Supreme Soul/soul.

My feeling from all this material is that the "Divine Vision" they are talking about in the early days is more to do with the divine 'visions' they were being given ... and that all and everyone were receiving from Dada Lekhraj and the Sisters ... rather than the weak sort of drishti as it is given these days.

Yes, ever since the BKs shifted from Pakistan to Mt. Abu the frequency of divine visions and the number of persons receiving these divine visions decreased drastically and after Brahma Baba's demise the divine visions caused to BKs have become almost negligible. Of course trance messages (which are also a kind of divine vision) have continued even after Brahma Baba's demise, although their frequency has also decreased drastically. There is an interesting Murli point from a recently published revised BK Sakar Murli:

· "Tum bachhon ko saakshaatkaar bhi bahut hongey. Shuru may tumko bahut saakshaatkaar hotey thay. Kabhi Lakshmi ko, kabhi Narayan ko invite kartey thay. Kitney saakshaatkaar hotey thay, fir pichaadi kay time jab hahakaar hoga tab fir tumko saakshaatkaar hongey. Hangaamey hongey toh tum bachhey aakar yahaan ikatthey hongey. Isliye Madhuban may jaasti makaan banaatey rahtey hain. Fir tum bachhon ko in saakshaatkaar say khushi may laatey rahengey. Parantu maasi ka ghar nahee hai jo sab yahaan aa jaayein. Jo sapoot bachhey Baba kay madadgaar hongey, vahee aayengey. Agar Pandavon kay galney kee baat hoti toh fir makaan hee kyon banaatey!" (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 19.01.07, pg 3&4)

· “You children would even have a lot of divine visions. In the beginning, you used to have a lot of divine visions. Sometimes Lakshmi and sometimes Narayan used to be invited. So many divine visions used to take place. Then, in the end, when there would be a lot of tumult, you would again have divine visions. When there would be disturbances, you children would come and gather here. That is why a lot of buildings continue to be constructed at Madhuban. Then you children would be made joyful by causing these divine visions. But, it would not be as easy for everyone to come here as visiting a maternal aunt’s house. The worthy children, who would be helpful to Baba, would alone come. If there was a question of Pandavas getting melted (as mentioned in the epic Mahabharata), then why the buildings would be constructed at all?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.01.07, pg.3&4 published by BKs, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK)

BKs say that Brahma Baba and Mama Saraswati are going to become Narayan and Lakshmi. But, in the above Vani narrated through the body of Brahma Baba himself, it has been said that sometimes Lakshmi and sometimes Narayan used to be invited. So, the matter of inviting which Lakshmi and Narayan is being mentioned here?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

BKs say that Brahma Baba and Mama Saraswati are going to become Narayan and Lakshmi. But, in the above Vani narrated through the body of Brahma Baba himself, it has been said that sometimes Lakshmi and sometimes Narayan used to be invited. So, the matter of inviting which Lakshmi and Narayan is being mentioned here?

I think anyone can appear from the Subtle Regions. It may seem to be the person, even tho the soul is somewhere else, or the person appears at another time in the BK cosmology. I think the access to the whole cycle is considered to be unrestricted at the Confluence Age as a result of Shiva's bring his Trikaldarshi attributes to the mouth-born progeny.

It has been clarified by ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) that the soul that plays the role of Prajapita/Confluence-Aged Krishna/Confluence-Aged Ram/Confluence-Aged Narayan is one and the same.

Dear arjun Bhai and other PBK Brothers.

According to Advanced Knowledge, Ram's soul is prajapita/ Confluence Age Krishna/ Confluence Age Ram/ Confluence Age Narayan. This is Bhakti-marg teaching as Shivbap's Murli says that "Bhakti-marg mein sabko milakar ek kar diya".

Now according to Murlis of Shivbap, Ram is described as follows :
'Ram is ShivBaba', 'Ram is parampita paramatma', 'Ram is Bhagwan', 'Ram is Ishwar',

The above 2 equations are diametrically opposite to each other and contradict each other 100%. So one of them is definitely wrong, the question is, which one is wrong???? Are the Murlis mahavakyas of Shivbap wrong, or is the advance teaching (which is subject to refining and changing) wrong? This is for the PBK students to decide which one they feel is right, for this one equation is going to decide what one becomes for the next 84 births (whether one becomes a king or a praja is going to be decided by this single very important equation, as the whole perception of Godly knowledge changes along with this belief).
shivsena.

Dear PBK Brothers,

Murli quote--" Atma paramatma alag rahe bahu kaal - sunder mela lagaa jab Satguru mila dalal", - (soul and Supreme Soul remain apart for many ages -- beautiful meeting occurs when Satguru meets through broker).

Please give your views as to who are these souls (atmas) who meet the Supreme Soul (paramatma) - and who is this dalal (broker--middle man) through whom the souls meet the Supreme Soul?

Also another Murli quote which says -" Har 5000 saal baad atma aur paramatma ka mela lagta hai"- (meaning that every 5000 years the souls and Supreme Soul meet together).

Has this moment of meeting of souls and Supreme Soul Shiva has it occured sometime in past (please specify when) or is it destined to happen at a future date?

Waiting for your views.

OK Om Shanti shivsena.
================

Dear Brother,

One Ram is for when we read the Murli, before we knew the Advanced Knowledge. When it was said your Supreme Soul Incorporeal Father Ram, Ram of all souls like Sitas, then we thought it was said for the Supreme Soul Shiva. The other Ram is for whom in the Murli it is said Ram failed. Ram of the Silver Age.

One Ram is - when we read the Murli, before we knew the Advanced Knowledge, then when it was said your Supreme Soul Incorporeal Father Ram, Ram of all souls like Sitas then we thought it is said for the Supreme Soul Shiva. Then the other Ram is for whom in the Murli it is said Ram failed. Ram of the Silver Age.

Dear andrey Bhai.

That is what i need to know, which is this ''Ram'' who failed and which is this ''Ram'' who becomes like incorporeal Shiva. I have not understood this theory of two Rams.

shivsena.

It is said in the Murli that Ram received punishment and received the bow and the arrow. This relates to the beginning of the Yagya - he failed and received a body like bow to make efforts through it and arrows of knowledge. He did not receive anything from the Yagya.

This is the corporeal Ram, an ordinary human soul, like you and me, who rose and fell. In him came the incorporeal Supreme Father. Baba (viaVDD) says that we receive the kingdom of heaven from the incorporeal supreme Father Shiva who is always in self-awareness This kingdom is obtained through the non-violent Yoga power. It is obtained 100% by the soul of the corporeal Ram. "This kingdom" means the kingdom of the self, the awareness of the self - the soul-concious stage. In this awareness the soul experiences liberation in life.

Then from the Copper Age, kingdoms are obtained from the corporeal Father Ram through violence. Baba (via Virendra Dev Dixit) says human beings create hell. God creates heaven. The soul of Ram himself claims an inheritance from the Supreme Father. From the one he claims the inheritance from, from the same one we claim the inheritance, and not from the one who himself claims from another one. Directly.

For the soul of Ram it remains the easiest effort to do - to remember the supreme Father in his own body. He also remembers in corporeal form. If he has given his body, it is not his anymore. Then it is also said in the Murli that as long as we remember him he comes, so it is benefit for the corporeal too if we can pull with the thread of love the incorporeal to come in him.

It is said in the Murli that Ram received punishment and received the bow and the arrow. This relates to the beginning of the Yagya - he failed and received a body like bow to make efforts through it and arrows of knowledge. He did not receive anything from the Yagya.

What does that mean in reality andrey?

Does it tell us in the VCD* what a "body like a bow" means and what the facts of Shewakram alleged mediumship was? When did it start and end? How and why did he end up in the Anti-Party by 1938? What happened after that?

He was Lekhraj Kirpalani sleeping parnter, did he ever pay back Lekhraj Kirpalani the money he owed him?

Told you - money is only in your eyes.

Told you - money is only in your eyes.

I am sorry, is that addressed to me? My point is not the money, it is the historical accuracy of the claims made by the BKWSU.

The BKWSU claims that Lekhraj Kirpalani (Krishna) was the sleeping partner. This book published by the Brahma-kumaris shows that Shewakram (Ram) was the sleeping partner.

The BKWSU claims Lekhraj Kirpalani just handed the business over to the partner and allowed him to sort it out 50:50 in 1936. This book shows that 6 years after Lekhraj Kirpalani retired in 1932, Shewakram still owed Lekhraj Kirpalani money.

If we document, analyze and remove all the lies and fabrications, we might start to approach the truth. Or at least those that know and speak the truth. That excludes the BKWSU who trade mainly, or entirely, in fairy stories.

I want to know how and when Shewakram spoke "the Murlis", or whatever they were called, and his history from first going into business with Lekhraj Kirpalani onwards. You might clarify what the Pui Vanis were - in plan English - and who and what the Golden Circle got up to as well.

Dear Brother,

You are the seeker so you should say what is the point of your interest. You should tell why are you interested in these matters. Because you also call names and dishonour people. Is it to document information and put in order or prove false? Because it will be like asking someone to give you a gun to shoot them. I mean what is the final aim? What will be seen when the big picture will be seen? You express very partial opinion about the BK.

Don't know about Piu Vanis and Baba has not mentioned Golden Circle. It may be gossip.

You are the seeker so you sould tell what is the point of your interest. You should tell why are you interested in these matters. Because you also call names and dishonour people. Is it to document information and put in order or prove false, because it will be like asking someone to give you gun so to shoot him.

Or like asking someone to testify against themselves to show themselves as guilty?

If anyone presents themselves as God, or an organisation presents themselves as of God or the truth, then surely full disclosure is for the benefit of all?

To work with children in the UK you now have to have a disclosure document so anything that might be harmful is known about. Surely any God-people working with spiritual children should have their past, present and future intent activities disclosed?

Don't know about Piu Vanis and Baba has not mentioned Golden circle. It may be gossip.

This shows that you are not only ill informed Andrey but negatively prejudiced. Something I find quite common amongst BK souls. I say "prejudiced" because you presume a negative when you are wrong (e.g The Golden Circle). I find this surprising for such self-proclaimed spiritual people in the same way as I find the holding back of Murlis from other seekers surprising.

The final purpose? A better picture of the truth. If not the truth itself. How can the truth be found or promoted by myth and falsehood?[/b]

If a University were found to be using books that were false and erroneous, would they not be demanded to change them. If a University were found to be covering up and falsifying information, what would happen to their leaders? They would be discredited and made to correct their errors. (If not booted out).

Should the Godly Universities not have higher standards?