BKWSU expands because "core is pure"

If you want to question my faith - let me tell you one thing very clearly "because.p" - even a million websites like this or millions of negative opinions will NOT BE ABLE TO SHAKE even an IOTA of my FAITH because that resides safely in divine protection . ... that's the power of faith in the relationship with God

It is good that you said GOD and not BK GOD.

I appreciate, respect and regards your faith on GOD, and I am not questioning it. Here we are discussing about whether the BKWSU expands because “CORE is PURE” and excuse me if any of my points disturbed you to made you respond in this manner.

The expansion of BKs is not because of their purity in their core, but because of cheap and heavy marketing ... using vulnerable and needy people in the name of SEVA. While the actual target is big people, VIP and VVIP. The big VIPs get luxurious 5-star treatments, the excuse being given is they are just mics who are spreading message of GOD's arrival. It is funny that Almighty Lord also seeks help of big mics to spread the message of his arrival.

After visiting this website I learnt that almost all key members of this website are truly GOD seekers and very sincere, devoted and committed BKs in their time, who then badly hurt by anomalous and inconsistent BK teachings and later discovered many revision and re-revisions of literature / Murlis etc, which were manipulated to fit in current flow of time.

Having faith on GOD is good and understandable. But to put GOD in the big showroom and making people believe that THEIR GOD is the ONLY GOD of all religions, and Ocean of Truth/Knowledge/Peace/Happiness. If you find any untruth in the system then it is treated as you don’t have FAITH in the Ocean of Truth. If you raise any question about Knowledge, then it is treated as you don’t have FAITH on the Ocean of Knowledge. If you are not peaceful/happy today, you are not putting much efforts. Then to show your FAITH you have to pretend to be knowledgeful/peaceful/happy/powerful/loveful/blissful and pure.

If they say that this is true knowledge coming out of the Ocean of Knowledge, then where does the question of FAITH come in? The Knowledge of science gives me information about why fruit is falling from a tree, can this complete knowledge of shrusthi give me information how much heaven is established by now and how much it is left? At least after 75 years being finished out of 100 years?

... I wish one day you experience that depth of sweetness and then comment .

Yes, I daily experience GOD’s canopy .. and know that GOD is not only BKs' property. Is it ever realized by BKs that God is merciful and protector in all religions, and even for people that do not follow any religion?

Thank you.

BKs has moved on but you are still trapped from what 70s/80s!

I think Clearer is wrong when they say "the BKWSU has moved on" (as in progressed).

Firstly, it may have modernised in the West for the sake of business but for most BKs in the towns and villages it is still exactly the same as it ever was. Fact. They are still teaching the Triumurti and Destruction in two to three years.

Secondly, what has happened in the West is not "progress" but largely a lowering of standards and an increase in vagueness and hypocrisies contrary to its original principles, e.g. all this turning of Gyan into business.

When I was a BK, the God of the BKs and instruments used to teach "Destruction in 50 years (1986) and Creation in 50 years" in the Murli. The BKs say the Murli is inarguable truth. It was false.

It was only decades after leaving that I discovered independently that the God of the BKs had also said Destruction in 1976, 1950 and WWII. Those predictions were also false.

Of course they don't want to look back and take responsibility for what they have done to decades of individuals on the basis of falsehoods!! How can one be "positive" about being ripped off and lied to?

I am not personally against you challenging the BKs on various aspects but it needs to have the right balance. It's incredible to see to the extremes that you can go and that you will do anything to magnify and exaggerate even a slight trace of hint you get that you can use against BKs totally overlooking how much positivity is around ...

Well, do it show us a good and mature example. Prove it, don't just claim it. The problem with the BKWSU is that there is no balance within *their* media ... it is all hype, exaggeration and self-advertising ... and look how they are having to change because of exposés here.

It's not "God" promoting reform within the BKWSU right now, it's we "lower than the lowest of the low" Shudras here.

Show me one place were they admit up their faults, problems, the historical revision etc ... and offer some way of resolving them and making good for them.

Give me two examples of when the BKWSU have admitted and apologised for their mistakes and compensated some individual for them.

We are the balance. We are factual, realistic and down to earth ... Tell us which one of our facts is wrong.


Personally, I do not call the litany of crimes, abuses and neglects carried out in the name of the BKWSU as being "slight" and I think you ought to be sensitive so as not to hurt those who have lost loved ones because of the BKWSU. My problem with most of the "good" BKs do, is that it is done in service of or to hide what is "bad". They have not moved on, it is still all about Destruction and the death of 7 billion human beings.

As far as I am concerned, even one suicide, covered up child abuse case or "robbed" bank account is one too many, and there have been many.

While I had no intention to continue this thread, "learning spirit" pulled me (the spirit) and this is a response to him :-).

Thank you so much for showing your concern - really appreciate it and apologies if my language made you think I am ending my life!!!

There is nothing like extreme bliss in my experience (a euphemism!) - bliss is never extreme because it's just an experience of "as is totally in the present moment, stable, joyous, natural stage" - it's not like a drug experience -> any high/worldly pleasure experienced through drugs is equally balanced by same amount of pain in life that is why it is totally wrong to equate a drug experience to a spiritual experience that some people do on this forum. Yes, I went to God and felt the bliss and deep love that day but not extreme and life taking one. I am very much alive and not writing this post from Subtle Region :-).

My apologies to Maria as well as probably I overreacted at her statements.

Also, in response to because.parmeshwar's comments, of course God is not a property of BKs!! And I have no hesitation in saying that those BKs who think that God only belongs to them are hypocrites. I really feel happy for you and lot of others on this forum who still feel the canopy and love of God and have that relationship.

As long as you have that, everything else falls in place at the right time ... In my life, it was a gift of the BKWSU and I will remain foreever grateful because before I came to BKs, I had no connection or experience of God. And you asked me to prove a lot of thing but I will not try to prove anything and I have explained why in various posts. I cannot even prove the existence of God or Soul in the first place; or the love of God that is fundamental to BK knowledge and the most important for me so its pointless arguing, attacking, proving other aspects (and the favourite one of this forum- Destruction ) for me, personally ... that just don't matter to me and I have lot of other better things to do in life.

For example, I am very content with meaning of Destruction as "end of my life" and whether you believe it or not a lot of BKs as well take it that way and then the rest all becomes very beautiful ... (and, if you want me to be disqualified from being called a BK because of this interpretation, that's fine too because I am not attached to this label either!) Just try once to apply this interpretation and you will see what I mean - in this way, can Destruction happen tomorrow, after a second, in 10 years, 50 years? The answer is yes to all these and then it gives you so much clarity on what you want to do with all the other aspects of BK Raja Yoga and the "core" ... I know a lot of members will keep dragging Destruction forever but my humble request is just imagine this once!

And if you think no this is a wrong interpretation then just look at the interpretations of my statements I want to share now from you guys (with no offence to anyone) which are totally wrong without any fault of yours (I don't have the time to prove this medically though if that is the only way to prove my sanity :-) ) - this is precisely what happens with Murlis and their interpretation.

I would like to conclude by the below statements made at different points. Please do not try to relate, judge or label these - I have just put these together to show the contrast in a lighter vein as I really enjoyed these comments :-).

Not given up family, very successful in professional career, experienced depth of soul consciouness and amazing power thereof, benefitted by practical aspects of spirituality in all aspects of life, used Yoga power to overcome life threatening diseases and bringing good health, beautiful family life, great relationships and so on ... My today's state of wellbeing is the best ever was and I am deeply contented with that. It has never been so good in my entire life the way it is now.

... you clearly demonstrated and confirmed what I have doubted earler, a chronic case of emotional instability and confusion.

It sounds like you might suffer from manic depression Clearer. I am not accusing or criticising you. It is not something to be ashamed of. Mental illnesses are nothing to be ashamed of, they are just illness of an organ like any other.

"Poetic" (which depressed, mentally unstable person on earth can be poetic my friend - do you want to reconsider and declare me a lunatic rather !)

It sounds almost as if you are trying to reach a state of extreme bliss before taking your life. If your are considering doing anything to end your life, I urge you to re-consider and to seek independent professional help".

So, finally, let me try in a non-BK language this time - this is the most exciting and rocking phase of my life and I am having fun guys :-). Come on just for a second forget the BKWSU, forget Destruction and then at least all of us can share one thing now as friends - a smile :-).

Cheers

At no time has the BKWSU encouraged adherents to believe that "Destruction" equates to one's own death. What you're saying is at the very least your own "manmat" (opinion, and warned against in the Murlis), or possibly just one of those deceptive BKisms or service devices (yuktis) used to make BKism sounds more reasonable to outsiders.

The Knowledge is just not open to interpretation that way. We all know what Destruction means. Death of 7 billion now (... although once upon a time it was just 4.5 billion according to the god of the BKs) and an unavoidable nuclear holocaust which the BKs will inspire. Fact. That is what the god of the BKs says.

You continue to confuse the idea of "God" with the god or experience of the BKs. I think you'll find most people refute that the two are the same thing. Fine, make love to the god of the BKs but please don't mix it up with other people's concepts. That's another typical BKism.

Remember too your own statements of your own depression and how it was magically cured by a group of BKs essentially praying you, and how great you feel now. You're sounding like a born again Christian telling us you're saved, and how we can be saved too ... but we all know what the BKs and Brahma Kumarism is really like.

I forget if we ever asked you this, but how much of a BK are you? I mean, do you go to morning class every day, teach class etc? Do you actually know what they teach, and have you been to Abu?

I am only asking you because there is a sort of periphery ring of individuals hanging around the BKWSU, not following the whole thing, and having nice enough "free" experiences but never really getting involved with them. I am just trying to see the BKs from your perspective and where you fit in the bigger picture.

And, lastly. it sounds like you are just re-definning "bliss" to be what normality is. I would have said "bliss" is a bit more intense and pleasurable than that.

Thank you.

clearernow

God exist in all relegions and many cults, but you appear to have chosen an awful one ..!

BK god (according to BK original version) is a jewellery merchant called Lekhraj Kripalani who, among other things, preached: Universe imminent Destruction, detachment from family and friends, eradication of feelings and emotions, abstention from eating non BKs food, isolation from earthly affairs ...

In other words, just sit there passively, watch the "Drama" unfold, and according to you ... smile ..!!

Sometimes I think the entirely philosophy and even god spirit is secondary. What BKism gives people is a club to hang out with, an identity, a superior gang to be part of and a bit of excitement at being part of something secret and special.

We cannot beat that because we have nothing offer such people.

I don't think it is possible to argue with adherents to change their minds because what they think they have is obviously better than the life they had before ... we could lay out all the evidence in the world about the BKs are and what goes on and it would not matter.

I just ask them to be honest with others and not part of deceiving them; to admit when they are unsure and stopping making exaggerated claims. To keep their feet on the ground.

I would rather engage them in conversation because I find it difficult to imagine what coming into The Knowledge so late is like. In a way, what they are saying is true ... the leadership has changed it so much. But at the same time, they should not be disrespectful of people who went through the crap of the early days or main the efforts to find out the truth of the BKWSU.

I agree with what you said above ex-l ... I also think followers consider it as an escape, a shelter ..!

Would not that take us to what "The Prince of Spiritualists", Lamar Keene, once wrote :

"No amount of logic can shatter a faith, consciously based on a lie "...!!

Thank you.

Perhaps the good thing of the BKs going to all those inter-faith religious meetings is that one day they will realise that they are just the same as every other religion.

I know that at their core the are ultimately and absolutely supremacist, and I think this is the attraction for some, but already I read other BKs, who now know the history is one big lie (which is not pure), playing the religious card and saying, "Oh, well, all other religions revise their history and make things up ... why cannot we? Why accuse just us?".

It's not according to The Knowledge and it's not honest (The Knowledge says they and only they are chosen, self-realised and every one else is impure, deluded and misled etc) but they are saying it.

I guess what they will do is re-define what "pure" means just as they re-define everything else. I am having a discussion with one such BK and it has become clear that they re-define the word "understand" as the word accept, so when they say, "you don't understand" or "you have a low level of understanding" what they are really saying is, "you don't accept" or "you have a low level of acceptance". What they say, or their logic, is easy to understand ... it's just wrong, illogical, upside down and one cannot accept it.

Clearernow wrote:
Of course God is not a property of BKs!! And I have no hesitation in saying that those BKs who think that God only belongs to them are hypocrites.

Murli (BKism) clearly says ShivBaba IS the almighty authority, and you only sikiladhe (once lost and now found) children identified who the true GOD is, and you been the Adharmurat (foundation souls) have to introduce it to the world that the true GOD has arrived in this world. And they will identify real god with only your image. You found the true GOD which even Sadhus and Sanyasis failed even after long years of tapasya.

In fact true BK do BELIEVE that theirs' GOD is the ONLY GOD and according to the Shrimat it is the moral responsibility of true BK to give the real introduction of real god to the people.

And, if you want me to be disqualified from being called a BK because of this interpretation, that's fine too because I am not attached to this label either!

I think Clearer is manipulating even BK teachings to fit in his own perspective.

This proves that he is not full fledged BK.

Sometimes I think the entirely philosophy and even god spirit is secondary. What BKism gives people is a club to hang out with, an identity, a superior gang to be part of and a bit of excitement at being part of something secret and special.

We cannot beat that because we have nothing offer such people.

I don't think it is possible to argue with adherents to change their minds because what they think they have is obviously better than the life they had before ... we could lay out all the evidence in the world about the BKs are and what goes on and it would not matter.

I just ask them to be honest with others and not part of deceiving them; to admit when they are unsure and stopping making exaggerated claims. To keep their feet on the ground.

I would rather engage them in conversation because I find it difficult to imagine what coming into The Knowledge so late is like. In a way, what they are saying is true ... the leadership has changed it so much. But at the same time, they should not be disrespectful of people who went through the crap of the early days or main the efforts to find out the truth of the BKWSU.

Golden words ....Thanks ex-I for continuing bringing the clarity of BKWSU.

They are not only disrespectful but they insults them (you will observe this in this current post of clearer), curse them and through this website I learn that they even beat them ...

I think Clearer is manipulating even BK teachings to fit in his own perspective.

This proves that he is not full fledged BK.

I don't know yet ... I would prefer if Clearernow clarified for us. Such a way of speaking is typical in BK service. What was make me suspect they were not a fully fledged BK was running away after being asked this question ... but I do not mean to challenged them.

I guess, like the rest of us (at one time or another), they are just looking for an identity and to be accepted by a group. Perhaps they came here to see if they would be accepted by a "post-BK" group.

For a certain period of our existence we accommodated demi-BKs but their 'patching up and supporting their faith' and exiting-BKs or ex-BK eradicating BK mental programming and repairing themselves was incompatible and so we had to draw a line and prioritise support for those who wanted to remove BKism and repair themselves.

Personally, although it might attract more individuals, I don't think accommodating demi-BKs who support BKism is a positive thing. I think they are set up and used by the BKWSU to promote and defend itself, and I think that their ambiguous grasp of BKism is dangerous or misleading.

The BKWSU encourages them to think they (the BKs) are accommodating of vague interpretations, new ideas etc but really it is not; and if you study what the actual teachings are, and hence the mindset of the core leadership, there are few to no ambiguities, e.g. if you are not a 24/7 BK, 365 days a year, you are essentially a low status failure. Even if a demi-BK thinks they are part of the team and cheering for it, sub-conscious they know and remember the reality of it ... and how does that feel?

Of course, where the BKWSU "pass and fail" ranking system fails, is where there is no grace given for honest, integrity, intellectually clarity or discovery ... it is all based on a simply following external physical disciplines and looking the part. You can be the an ignorant, stupid, dishonest or manipulative ******* ... and cream financial benefits out of the religion ... but as long as you get up at 4am every morning, wear white and don't question Dadi Janki you can be in the top rank according to them.

I suspect reality is different from that therefore I cannot agree with the idea that the BKWSU expands because its "core is pure". Rather I would say it continues to expand because its leadership is willing to compromise to increase it wealth.

clearernow

God exist in all relegions and many cults, but you appear to have chosen an awful one ..!

BK god (according to BK original version) is a jewellery merchant called Lekhraj Kripalani who, among other things, preached: Universe imminent Destruction, detachment from family and friends, eradication of feelings and emotions, abstention from eating non BKs food, isolation from earthly affairs ...

Hello Dany

I am sorry but I do not have anything to do with Dada Lekhraj when it comes to my understanding, experience and relationship with God. I have never had any experience of him- nothing of supernatural/trance/vision type experience. Nor the BKs definition of God is to see him as God. I think we all know the introduction of God given by BKWSU in the form of the eternal Shiva - a point of light, divine energy, ocean of all virtues, our true mother and Father and so on..and connect to that source through the power of soul consciousness..thats the core...so I won't go into much details and try to prove it nor do I want to argue about who God is. Over ages, mankind has fought each other on the subject of God and individual faiths, Yes every religion has their definition of God and never accepted the others. I have done my study on the main religions and their definitions never worked for me including my own religion I was born in. Today for me personally the understanding and relationship with God is so beautiful and has brought so many benefits to my life that all else is immaterial. I have shared the benefits many times on this forum and I am more than content with them. At the end of the day God is a matter of faith- just like you are free to choose your companion in life, you are free to choose your God and I have chosen my love. I do respect the choices you have made and I am sure you have found or will find what works for you and that can even be more beautiful which is fine.

So without arguing on each point you highlighted, I would just like to share my personal view on one point you highlighted about practice of detachment- To me that is one of the fundamental aspects of spirituality and particulary if you look at Eastern philosophy, detachment is nothing new but at the same time not understood very well- it has been preached over ages and infact Gita which is a key scripture of India just revolves around this singular subject. I have experienced this practically in life that detachment doesnt equate to "leaving your family or friends" or "no affection or no love"- infact detachment leads to more and more happiness and yet you could be very loving towards others and relationships become even more beautiful..From the time I started practicing this, my relationships with family and friends has only got better and better and I have infact found more friends through the practice rather than losing even a single one- I see nothing wrong with detachment and again its a matter of personal experience and choice. Many people do not like detachment which is fine as they are free to choose. On other topics such as destruction, family and so on..I have said enough on this forum in my previous posts. I think this forum helps to understand one thing very clearly that be very sure of the choices you make in life and path you choose...I am happy to confirm that this has only made me even more clear about the choice I have made...so thanks to all your help

O my true Father, how do I show my gratitude for how much you have done for me
O my true friend, how do I thank you enough for you understand me better than I do
O my true companion how do I even dream of this beautiful journey of life without you
O my true love how do I show my love for you to the world as tears fail to convey
All I can say is that I love you

Cheers

I am afraid I have to ask the same question, how much of a BK are you as far as following principles and involvement with the organization (teaching/service etc)?

As you know, as far as most people are concerned, basically no one believes the god of the BKs is God and, given the recent revelations of the beginning of the Om Mandli, the case is wide open for what it might be.

I am happy for you to call your god "our god" or the god of the BK but I am not happy at the arrogant, presumptive and, dare I say it, ridiculous claim ... that the god of the BKs is the God of all religions. It clearly is not ... if for no other reason that there are numerous different concepts of god/gods.

As to the relationship and cross-overs between Lekhraj Kirpalani and the god spirit of the BKs ... well, that is another open case. It clear that there are and have been cross-overs, i.e. confusions between what is Lekhraj Kirpalani and what is the god spirit. My feeling is that the understanding of the BKs about it all still has to evolve considerably.

Are you one of those BK types who would not care even if Destruction did not happen and Heaven start by 2036? Do you find it acceptable that your god keeps changing his tune or his predictions keep failing?

Clearernow

Are you trying to say that you believe in God in the absolute, without any attachment or link with any religion or cult ideology and teachings ? ... I fully respect that choice .

As for detachment subject, experience in life have taught me to judge many things from their END RESULTS, i.e , influence and effect on people well being, behaviours and relations with others, rather than what is written in books and references or spoken in lectures .

When it comes to BK detachment concept, and in all BK cases I have seen or heard of, the end result was ... CATASTROPHIC ..!!

I did think it was misleading to say that "all Eastern religions taught detachment" and that somehow this was therefore good.

It's equally or moreso correct to say that all Eastern religions (except perhaps the sanyasin traditions) taught family loyalty and fulfilling one's worldly responsibilities before retiring for spiritual practise.

In addition to which, just because something is "Eastern" does not make it good, applicable or of primary importance everywhere ... given the choice of Hinduism or sanitary engineering (clean water and sewage systems), which would you say has benefited the world more? I'll have a glass of drinking water and flushing toilets any day.

Still, it all matters not until clearernow is willing to discuss exactly how much of a BK they are. BKism is all very fine on the surface or in the "suburbs", I agree. It's once you get into the core that the stink or rot starts to become more apparent, in my opinion.

Are you one of those BK types who would not care even if Destruction did not happen and Heaven start by 2036? Do you find it acceptable that your god keeps changing his tune or his predictions keep failing?

It doesn’t matter at all for them. Even after continuous messages about Destruction in daily Murlis, it is typical answers from the BKs ... "oh, Baba has never given a date for the Destruction". And Baba very cleverly put the ball in children’s court saying. "Baba can transform the world in a second ... but children are not yet ready ... he ask children to fix a date and get ready" ... it is vice versa game ... and both of them are flourishing.

The supreme teacher never tells that what is the criterion, when the children obtain the pass marks to be called as GOT READY ... still now he is saying, "no one is ready as yet except Mama and Baba. How he can prepare the final mala (garland)?".