Hi Pink Panther,
You wrote: “If even one piece of indisputable evidence exists that history on earth is more than 5000 years, that blows that idea. If you were in a debating team and had to present the case that the earth’s story goes back further than 5000 years, I am sure you could present an indisputable case - if you wanted to.”
HERE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
BKs do not say “history on earth is 5000 years old” but say HISTORY ON EARTH IS AN ENDLESS CYCLES OF 5000 YEARS which actually means HISTORY ON EARTH HAS NO BEGINNING, AND WILL HAVE NO END. This is the broadest view that exists on earth which is far far longer than that of even hard-core evolutionists’ calculation.
Let us start with our own experience. Our experience shows that quality of life and environment is getting worse and worse as time passes which means history had a perfect start. Thus history is cyclical with first half being perfect (characterized by small human population and vast environment) and second half being imperfect (characterized by increasing population and depleting resources).
Requirement of first perfect half cannot be known now, AND ALSO, AGE OF A FOSSIL THAT BELONG TO THE PERFECT FIRST HALF CANNOT CORRECTLY BE ASCERTAINED IN THE IMPERFECT SECOND HALF BECAUSE OF CONTRASTING ECOSYSTEMS. Just like huge whales coexist with small fishes in the ocean, huge beings can coexist with humans in the first perfect half of the history, in harmony, taking care of special needs of that period.
When each cycle revolves, perfect half falls into imperfect half. When such a perfect system suffers a fall, everything turns upside down with catastrophic changes taking place in every sphere. Getting killed by accidents (small and big such as natural calamities), killing on purpose (some of the humans and some of the animals began to eat the flesh of other species), some of the constructive micro organisms turning into destructive agents causing various diseases ... were some of those catastrophic changes.
When heaven-like situation changed into hell-like situation, it was like a change from order to disorder, and the world began to be called duniya (place where law and logic no longer rule the lives of people, which highlights the impure attitude of the inhabitants). When healthy thinking which resulted in healthy body and healthy environment changed into harmful thinking it would have corresponding results in bodies and environment. It means change happened everywhere—in attitude, in thinking ... and even within DNA of some beings which means disorder began to manifest in various forms—sometimes gigantism and dwarfism even among same species, big species becoming small and vice versa.
Implication of change in DNA has already been shown by Genetic Engineering (process of changing DNA in order to bring about certain characteristics in a living thing). Some of the wonders it has produced include things such as bigger, longer-lasting vegetables, trees that could absorb dirty water and make it clean again before the water is released into the air, trees that grow super-fast so that they can create stronger, higher quality wood, genetically modified plants (like grapple that is an apple that tastes exactly like a like a grape), salmon that grows faster, genetically modified animals ....etc.
Changes happen when situation calls for such changes. For example, when such changes as extinction of species involved in a food-chain happens “biodiversity also lends genetic variability to a population, helping it adapt to fluctuating environmental conditions.” (https://sciencing.com/happens-something ... 18214.html)
In other words, big species such as dinosaurs (if they really existed) served some purpose in the first half of each cycle of history. That special purpose is over when history entered the imperfect second half and dinosaurs were no longer needed, which means dinosaurs could go extinct or become small like birds or lizard. Interestingly, dinosaurs mean just big lizard in ancient languages such as Latin, Greek [deinos = terrible + sauros = lizard] etc.
An analytical mind can reach almost the same conclusion about history and see history is cyclical if he/she looks for implied truth behind the following sure truths such as:
1) Everything is transformation of energy; energy is eternal; and nothing happens without something preceding to it, which means history has an infinite past;
2) There is order in the nature such as earth being fine-tuned for the life, which proves God exists;
3) There is the natural law of increasing disorder, entropy [which stipulates that all systems in the real world tend to go "downhill," as it were, toward disorganization and decreased complexity, which can be likened to what happens to a building that tends to deteriorate as the time passes by and that doesn't stay neat or new on its own—it means building needs to be re-constructed in the end].
The implied truth in all these is that disorder can arise from order (not vice versa); and things that are new become old as the time passes (not vice versa). The system of things on earth was new then and became old now—it does not remain eternally new or eternally old/decadent. That means at some regular interval, original state is restored which means history is a never-ending cycle of elevation and eventual decline.
What became old can be renewed only by the intervention of a Supreme Being. Interestingly, this is the unmistakable truth conveyed in the famous and ancient symbol of God (Shiva Linga). In the term linga, 'la' indicates dissolution (laya) of old system of things while 'Golden Age' stands for arrival (agamana) of new system of things. In other words, this great symbol conveys two phases (ascending and descending) of each Kalpa and also highlights the two roles God Shiva plays, between each Kalpa, as the Illuminator and Elevator of mankind.
Just like the certainty of a next generation-tree is a sure guarantee because of the seed its previous generation-tree left behind, certainty of arrival of next Kalpa is absolutely sure because seed of the Kalpa tree is Supreme Soul, which means Golden Age would arrive with the same ease a present tree came from a seed of a past tree, and if present tree is real, it means future tree is also real.
You wrote: “If even one piece of indisputable evidence exists that history on earth is more than 5000 years, that blows that idea. If you were in a debating team and had to present the case that the earth’s story goes back further than 5000 years, I am sure you could present an indisputable case - if you wanted to.”
HERE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
BKs do not say “history on earth is 5000 years old” but say HISTORY ON EARTH IS AN ENDLESS CYCLES OF 5000 YEARS which actually means HISTORY ON EARTH HAS NO BEGINNING, AND WILL HAVE NO END. This is the broadest view that exists on earth which is far far longer than that of even hard-core evolutionists’ calculation.
Let us start with our own experience. Our experience shows that quality of life and environment is getting worse and worse as time passes which means history had a perfect start. Thus history is cyclical with first half being perfect (characterized by small human population and vast environment) and second half being imperfect (characterized by increasing population and depleting resources).
Requirement of first perfect half cannot be known now, AND ALSO, AGE OF A FOSSIL THAT BELONG TO THE PERFECT FIRST HALF CANNOT CORRECTLY BE ASCERTAINED IN THE IMPERFECT SECOND HALF BECAUSE OF CONTRASTING ECOSYSTEMS. Just like huge whales coexist with small fishes in the ocean, huge beings can coexist with humans in the first perfect half of the history, in harmony, taking care of special needs of that period.
When each cycle revolves, perfect half falls into imperfect half. When such a perfect system suffers a fall, everything turns upside down with catastrophic changes taking place in every sphere. Getting killed by accidents (small and big such as natural calamities), killing on purpose (some of the humans and some of the animals began to eat the flesh of other species), some of the constructive micro organisms turning into destructive agents causing various diseases ... were some of those catastrophic changes.
When heaven-like situation changed into hell-like situation, it was like a change from order to disorder, and the world began to be called duniya (place where law and logic no longer rule the lives of people, which highlights the impure attitude of the inhabitants). When healthy thinking which resulted in healthy body and healthy environment changed into harmful thinking it would have corresponding results in bodies and environment. It means change happened everywhere—in attitude, in thinking ... and even within DNA of some beings which means disorder began to manifest in various forms—sometimes gigantism and dwarfism even among same species, big species becoming small and vice versa.
Implication of change in DNA has already been shown by Genetic Engineering (process of changing DNA in order to bring about certain characteristics in a living thing). Some of the wonders it has produced include things such as bigger, longer-lasting vegetables, trees that could absorb dirty water and make it clean again before the water is released into the air, trees that grow super-fast so that they can create stronger, higher quality wood, genetically modified plants (like grapple that is an apple that tastes exactly like a like a grape), salmon that grows faster, genetically modified animals ....etc.
Changes happen when situation calls for such changes. For example, when such changes as extinction of species involved in a food-chain happens “biodiversity also lends genetic variability to a population, helping it adapt to fluctuating environmental conditions.” (https://sciencing.com/happens-something ... 18214.html)
In other words, big species such as dinosaurs (if they really existed) served some purpose in the first half of each cycle of history. That special purpose is over when history entered the imperfect second half and dinosaurs were no longer needed, which means dinosaurs could go extinct or become small like birds or lizard. Interestingly, dinosaurs mean just big lizard in ancient languages such as Latin, Greek [deinos = terrible + sauros = lizard] etc.
An analytical mind can reach almost the same conclusion about history and see history is cyclical if he/she looks for implied truth behind the following sure truths such as:
1) Everything is transformation of energy; energy is eternal; and nothing happens without something preceding to it, which means history has an infinite past;
2) There is order in the nature such as earth being fine-tuned for the life, which proves God exists;
3) There is the natural law of increasing disorder, entropy [which stipulates that all systems in the real world tend to go "downhill," as it were, toward disorganization and decreased complexity, which can be likened to what happens to a building that tends to deteriorate as the time passes by and that doesn't stay neat or new on its own—it means building needs to be re-constructed in the end].
The implied truth in all these is that disorder can arise from order (not vice versa); and things that are new become old as the time passes (not vice versa). The system of things on earth was new then and became old now—it does not remain eternally new or eternally old/decadent. That means at some regular interval, original state is restored which means history is a never-ending cycle of elevation and eventual decline.
What became old can be renewed only by the intervention of a Supreme Being. Interestingly, this is the unmistakable truth conveyed in the famous and ancient symbol of God (Shiva Linga). In the term linga, 'la' indicates dissolution (laya) of old system of things while 'Golden Age' stands for arrival (agamana) of new system of things. In other words, this great symbol conveys two phases (ascending and descending) of each Kalpa and also highlights the two roles God Shiva plays, between each Kalpa, as the Illuminator and Elevator of mankind.
Just like the certainty of a next generation-tree is a sure guarantee because of the seed its previous generation-tree left behind, certainty of arrival of next Kalpa is absolutely sure because seed of the Kalpa tree is Supreme Soul, which means Golden Age would arrive with the same ease a present tree came from a seed of a past tree, and if present tree is real, it means future tree is also real.