Mama monkey

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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jann

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Mama monkey

Post23 Sep 2013

The Dutch doctor Henk Fransen, invited by BK to talk about living with cancer.

He is totally not aware of BK teachings because he says detachment or a lack of attachment can cause cancer. Same with exclusion. Prisoners who were banned from the group even got feelings to commit suicide. Interesting.

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Pink Panther

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Re: Mama monkey

Post24 Sep 2013

Maybe someone can leave a telling comment on the youtube page in Jann's link? I tried but found the registration process daunting.

I have a friend who is going through cancer treatment at the moment. He is using a combination of orthodox and complimentary therapies which seems to be working very well. I will share details if it all ends successfully.

I can say at this point, and relevant to topic, that part of his approach was not to get too involved with the "attitude" aspect which many people focus on, which can promote tension when conscious "pretend" positivity is counter to, and does not acknowledge, any sub-conscious anxiety, fear or helplessness and which can leave patients blaming themselves if things don't go well. Rather, it's recognising that what is going on is at the cellular level, and is mostly the result of biology and chemistry which can be utilised best if "he" gets out of the way. I can tell you at this stage it's "so far so good" and I will detail his regime later for those who may know someone in this boat, or may go through it themselves in future - with links and references once all is completed satisfactorily.

jann

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Re: Mama monkey

Post24 Sep 2013

There are some things we can belief to heal ourselves. For me, I think that if we live in this world, the world provides a cure for deceases. In my opinion, it's all out there in the deep Amazon Jungle or whatever place humans never set foot.

The fact I posted this video is not to tell you something new. I do believe the body/mind has a healing power to some extend which can be related to all kind of weird things like walking on hot coals. Cancer is big business. When a person gets the message, "you have cancer" the first thing that comes to mind is, "I am going to die". Even if a doctor tells you that you have a good chance to be cured, you still think you are going to die. There is a whole new industry taking advantage of that. The list of alternative "healing" is endless. Now this doctor has some interesting ideas but why is he invited by BK?

He is very clear that detachment is killing, separation can lead to suicide (let's remind Rajana). When a baby monkey is born and attachment to the mother is not there, it will die, when a kitten is born and there is no touch from the mother, it will die; even you keep it alive with food, it will still die. It's the same thing with humans.

This is where the BK teachings come in.

We as humans know how to detach from our children. They grow up and we just have to let go. If your mother dies you have to let go, it is just a part of life, and when we die others also will let go. It's natural, it's the circle of life. Now back to the doctor when he tells us about his patient. This also has to do with attachment, the healthy attachment.

Even the healthy attachment/bondage in BK is wrong! While in human life it keeps us alive. This doctor said that when prisoners are separated from the group is the most devastating form of punishment. The black and white thinking in BK
makes all more bad than good. They create hateful feelings towards others. Separation, detachment, exclusion will cause diseases according to this doctor. But it is what BK teaches.

It would not surprise me this doctor will be a new front. All he does is selling e-books, lectures and has his own business. As far as I know, he is not really working in any hospital.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Mama monkey

Post24 Sep 2013

A long time BK in Australia, mentioned here sometimes because she was doing BK history research, Wendy Sargent, died of cancer two years ago. She took a long time to die. One BK woman who was an old friend of hers is a professional masseuse and would massage her, and an ex-BK man, who knew her longer than anyone i.e. from before either of them were BKs, also would massage her to give some comfort and relieving the pressures of being immobile, bedridden etc basically to reduce suffering more than the maximum doses of morphine could, and show affection through touch as she was pretty much unable to see or hear much at all.

Some BKs were coming in and meditating, some seemed to want to be the ones who were there when she finally died, to be "serving her" with "vibrations". One of them apparently complained about her being touched by a male and another - not sure if it was the same person - complained that the masseuse was keeping her alive and "attached" to her body!!

There is an account of it here http://xbkchat.net/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1303305718.
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ex-l

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Re: Mama monkey

Post24 Sep 2013

I wonder how the BKs respond to hearing their "experts" say the opposite of what they do?

When I read the title, I also thought about Om Radhe, who the BKs call Mama, who died prematurely and at a young age of 46 years, riddled and bloated by cancer. I'd guess in a pretty horrible way ... 1965 in India.

Radhi Pokardas Rajwani first lost her Father in early teenages, then lost the physical affection she was then getting from Lekhraj Kirpalani, then had to act as "the Mother" of the Yugya for everyone else, even those older than her and had to deny her humanness and femininity to play the part God Lekhraj Kirpalani had given her. It's said she was even separated from her children ... Her mother's Sister (aunt) named Dhyani, also lost her husband. There was a lot of grief in her home and, when the cult heard about it, they ... arguably ... exploited it to encult the mother and daughter. Lekhraj Kirpalani become their virtual husband-father.
BKWSU wrote:Her [Om Radhe] interest turned from being a doll of fashion to becoming an angel of love and peace. When Dada saw a new girl in the Gita Satsang, on the very first day, he obtained her introduction out of curiosity. Dada instantly realised that she was the very Radhe who had to become the torchbearer of the Gyan Yagya. Dada began to administer special dosage of Gyan upon Radhe and entrusted her the work of singing hymns in Gita Satsang. Radhe had cultivated such a perfect art of articulating the humming sound of “Om” that the listeners became spell bound, landed into a world of meditation through a celestial vibration in their physical bodies, and came face to face with their soul. The attendance in Gita Satsang progressively increased. The spell of Radhe had clicked. People started addressing her as “Om Radhe”. Dada too called her “Om Radhe” and sometimes “Beti”(daughter).

Do the BKs stop and think why she died as she did? No, it's just "her karma" ... and utterly medieval non-answer. A stop-block to any other critical or analytical thinking.

Something random happens due to the genes you were given (cancer) ... "it's your karma". Something bad happens to your healthy due your negligence (eating badly, no exercise, stress neglect) ... "it's your karma". The sure according to the BKWSU? BK Raja Yoga meditation, the "only" cure for "bad karma".

The difference between science (knowledge) and primitive superstition ("it's your karma"), is that science sits down, asks questions and criticises, and works out how and why precisely.
jann wrote:... this doctor has some interesting ideas but why is he invited by BK?

He is very clear that detachment is killing, separation can lead to suicide (let's remind Rajana). When a baby monkey is born and attachment to the mother is not there, it will die, when a kitten is born and there is no touch from the mother, it will die; even you keep it alive with food, it will still die. It's the same thing with humans.

Why?

I guess partly the BKs are in the same business of attracting people in using any vulnerability, any chink in individuals armour. It was only one part of a series of events at Global Co-operation House in London called 'Living with Cancer' so, presumably, they are targeting people with cancer.

The way these things work, often a BK might be or have the problem/speciality the event is about and so is inspired to do something related to it. I think also they invite people to learn from them, mostly language and ideas, which they then later use sell their religion. It's interesting because they say, "Baba, Baba, Baba ..." and that all other source of knowledge are illusions or, at best, of limited value; and yet when you look closely, time and time again, they are borrowing, stealing, synthesising words, concepts and ideas from outside and "purifying" them, adopt them, to become theirs.

He's aligned himself with Masaru Emoto, who has spoken at the BKs before, which is leaning pretty far over to pseudo-science. I guess for these people, it's another audience to sell their books, DVDs and, in his case, supplements. I cannot think of any such speaker who has been enculted afterwards but they become useful "microphone souls" telling other people how nice and respectful the BKs are, so it's a good PR exercise, entertains regular BKs and brings people into the centers.

It seems he was trained in medicine, I am not sure how or in what but it seems he worked as a pharmacist. He's also done the whole "trainer ... coach ... facilitator" talking shop stuff the BKs are into too. He's a sweet and gentle storyteller ... and "bedside manners" do count in care ... but, ethically, one would have to look at the hard science of it all.

He's selling the idea of "spontaneous healing" ... YMMV.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Mama monkey

Post25 Sep 2013

Something random happens due to the genes you were given (cancer) ... "it's your karma". Something bad happens to your healthy due your negligence (eating badly, no exercise, stress neglect) ... "it's your karma".

Cancer is the most ironic of diseases.

For the organism (that is us) to live, healthy cells are genetically 'programmed' to die and be replaced with new cells i.e. they have an inherent "use-by" date.

Here's the irony. Cancer cells are when those cells themselves have become "immortal", the "switch-off and die" button is malfunctioning. They will not die when they replicate, until they've taken over to eventually kill the organism they grow within.

Although there are different types of cancers and no-one knows exactly what causes or triggers them, we do understand what propensities favour cancer cells (genetic and external environmental), what they enjoy and in what (internal) environments they will flourish and in what environments they will struggle.

Cancer cells like low PH (acidic), anaerobic (low oxygen) environment and they will "eat" as much blood sugar (glucose) as they can. Healthy cells flourish in alkaline, aerobic environment and only take as much glucose as they need.

Good diet and all-over activity/exercise/circulation are the basic ways to oxygenise the blood and keep it alkaline, and convert glucose to energy, as well as keep one's immune system strong.

Poor diet and lack of exercise/circulation to any part of the system will leave that area in particular less oxygenated, more stagnant, acidic - a fetid swamp ideal for cancerous growths. This indicates why affluent, sedentary cultures tend to have higher cancer rates. It's chemistry and biology that are the basic building blocks here. Emotional and psychological factors are important as far as they influence the chemistry.

So, in effect it is* "karma" i.e. actions done (or not done) based on decisions taken (or not taken), that set up any circumstances conducive to such a disease. It's not some akashic penalty notice due for repayment from some long forgotten infringement.

Whenever I looked at any picture of "Mama" all I ever saw was an unhealthy person. I never saw any wisdom or spirituality in the eyes, all I saw was someone who was assertive, even a kind of passive-aggressive arrogance. There were "Mama" bhagats but I was never one.

*Leaving aside external influences like toxins or radiation.
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ex-l

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Re: Mama monkey

Post25 Sep 2013

I have to say I can agree with this speaker about the importance or benefit of touch and intimacy.

So what do the BKs do when they invite someone round who they promote as an expert who then says so? Do they change, or just mentally withdraw into Om Shanti when anything challenges their little bubble. Freeze and wait for Dadi to say something?

Alladin, some time ago, said things had changed and even she was shocked when she last went to Madhuban seeing Sisters giving each other long and loving physical massages but I don't know how widespread such practises are nor, especially, how BK children are dealt with.

I encountered the BKs is a culturally cold nation. I don't know what it is like is more close or physical cultures, e.g. Latin countries, nor the differences between males and females.

I cannot image many Brothers getting touchie-feelie with each other and I find it quite perverse to think that the BK culture would permit same sex touchie-feelie whilst banning opposite sex touchie-feelie.

That Avyakt7 you mentioned in another post is actually a professional bodyworker. In my day, that would not have been encouraged or allowed and any BKs operating close to that area were guided towards other more soulless occupations.

BKism was the only cure, any problem being details with only one solution ... more of it.

Cancer, on the other hand, is much more complex a group of diseases. I am not against complimentary therapies and the value of simple 'feel good' but ever alternative school of treatment has had paradoxically serious failure, e.g. in Macrobiotics, the leader of one school who ever much popularised the concept of Macrobiotics as a "cancer cure" called Michio Kushi contracted it and the first thing he did was run and very serious invasive surgery. His wife and his daughter both died of it.

Somewhat cult-like, it was hushed up in Japan where he has a large business interest and he, his family and adherents went into denial and looked to blame other reasons for it rather than accept the diet was not a cure all. Similar stories are true for every other treatment, e.g. Gerson, raw foodism, homeopathy etc.

No one really knows. I don't know what the BKs are teaching or promoting in this area.

It is probably worth investigating and flagging up their real agenda to which ever healthy authorities they are appealing too. "The Brahma Kumaris in Health Care" is the one of the main areas of PR campaign for them ever since they got the hospital in Abu and established "The Janki Foundation", claiming she was a nurse. Ha.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Cancer

Post26 Sep 2013

As I mentioned in earlier post, there is great movement in investigating how combinations of therapies work - because even though every individual therapy seems to have its rationale, the results are not good enough. Even the Gerson therapy is emphatic that all of its many constituents need to be properly followed, no skimping, ommissions, shortcuts etc.

My friend is 69 yrs old. I passed on to him research by Dr Valter Longo from University of Southern California who has been a lynchpin between various teams researching, with the highest clinical rigour, such combinations of orthodox and complimentary/alternative treatments.

Radio- or chemo- therapy are toxic treatments that gamble on more of the cancer cells being poisoned and killed than the healthy cells. It is still considered the most effective in comparison, but there are many unpleasant effects and success is variable

One of these alternative approaches is fasting - for the reasons given in the previous post vis a viz cancers love blood sugar, acidity etc and the simple action of ketosis in fasting creates opposite conditions that cancer cells have difficulty living with. Normal cells have evolved to deal with times of starvation for over 40 days, cancer cells cannot, they are greatly weakened quite quickly.

Fasting alone as a cancer treatment is shown to improve outcomes a little, chemo is also shown to improve outcomes, but together they are proving to be exponentially more effective, eg childrens' neuroblastoma is a most aggressive cancer, with a very small survival rate, maybe 5%, but using this treatment they are already getting 40%.

If a cancer is diagnosed while the patient still has strength, then using a protocol of fasting along with chemo-therapies multiplies the efficacies of both approaches.

Why? Because when you have fasted for over 48 hrs we enter ketosis and the healthy cells "shut down" aiming to survive the famine, whilst Cancer cells, super avaricious for blood sugar, will absorb whatever is around and the only thing around to eat for them is the methotrexate or similar chemo drug, which kills them off.

Sure fasting is not easy, but chemo is not either. Chemo- usually has nausea associated with it whilst those who fast do not experience nausea.

Another factor is that our immune system kicks in whenever we take in any foreign matter, and that includes food. So with fasting any immune response is directed purely at the chemo drug and to the cancer cells which are being killed off by it, decomposing and needing excretion. The rationale all makes sense.

My friend's oncologist was very orthodox and advised against fasting, but he had the support of nursing staff and he been in correspondence with Dr Longo so he took control of this part of his treatment, along with bombarding doctors and demanding full explanations of each aspect of their treatment so he would know what he had to to do, e.g. it took a half dozen questions and my googling to find out simple things they should have told him, e.g. that after methotrexate therapy he should be drinking water voluminously as it is water soluble ... (just one example).

He eats well and often between fasts, and is very disciplined in other ways as well, resting, doing what exercising he feels capable of etc. He is using a 'gratitude" mantra to keep his mind from trolling through unnecessary speculations. (He says he does 2 or 3 x 108,000 each day!).

His response to this combined fasting+chemo protocol is at the highest possible level of expectation and everyone is very pleased with the progress. He has had sensations return to his feet which he hasn't felt in over 2 years, lesions in his neck have disappeared and much more.

If you read the literature, it is considered early days for treating human this way "officially" but (Note Well) it is already common practice in veterinary cancer treatments!

Protocol - fast 3 full days (72 hrs) before chemo begins, during and 24 hrs after completed.

If chemo is administered over 4 days that means 8 days' fast. Not easy maybe, but neither is living with or dying from cancer. Short term displeasure for long term gain. My friend said he felt no effects from the chemo, no nausea etc, just the discomfort of fasting which he could tolerate well enough as he was quite inactive and hospital food was rubbish anyway.

In the link below, Longo explains, among other things, how it can save govt. health budgets billions - through efficacy and it costs nothing to NOT feed people.

The Science Show
Longo

Other searches will bring up his published papers
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ex-l

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Re: Cancer

Post26 Sep 2013

Pink Panther wrote:... using this treatment they are already getting 40% ... His response to this combined fasting+chemo protocol is at the highest possible level of expectation

So ... why did the god of the BKs neglect his number two human being ... or why were the Father and Mother of Humanity unaware/uninspired enough to consider such treatments for their Mama.

Is the height of their wisdom, "It's their karma" and "do more meditation", and if that is the height of their wisdom ... why bother with any medical treatments ... or building a hospital ... because surely any illness, whether caused by genetic defects or vices (bad diet, lack of exercise etc) or accident ... "is their karma" too?

Inconsistency.

Using the old "It's their karma" get out clause is criminally ignorant and excuses any indulgence or vice.

A child dies or does not develop because it was not given love ... "It's their karma".

A BK has a heart attack, contracts diabetes (two very common illnesses with the Indian middle classes the BKs target cause largely by diet and lifestyle, so common they actually use them as service devices to draw people in and, I belief, finally had to start adopt health regimes because *so many* BKs were sick it was bad for business) ... "It's their karma".

Then why fix them and why not just tell them to "do more meditation" and let "Baba fix it" ... or follow Dadi Janki's example and get chronically ill so you can do and serve the medical staff at the hospital. "Wah, Drama ... Wah, Dadi ... what a miracle ... how I am saved ... everything is explained".

So why not accept and adopt "the Karma" of allowing people to be affectionate and form healthy relationships (which have also been proven to increase life and healthy) ... "Oh, that's not their karma!!!"

If anyone can explain, please do.
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ex-l

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Re: Cancer

Post26 Sep 2013

ex-l wrote:If anyone can explain, please do.

I'll answer my own questions ... because Brahma Kumarism has largely become about the business based on management of human resources, how to get the most out of the most people for free and turn a profit around on it.

It has no innate wisdom and is often both counter-intuitive and counter-intelligence. "It's your karma" does not denote understanding ... it's just a superstitious wave of a wand, a yukti (device) to stop the mind asking any more questions.
    Why did Dadi Janki's very unwanted child die?

    Did she love it or resent it? Did she care of it or neglect it to get back to her lover Lekhraj Kirpalani's and the cult. Did she let it die or even kill it?

    Can we really believe it was just "it's karma" to die? ... Look at how strong Janki's genes, and the genes of that generation of Sindhi are, many of whom are still active into their 90s.
It's one of the other great mysteries of the Yugya.

As Mama Dadi says, "Don't think, don't question, just say Baba, Baba, Baba".

If you get conned, sick, hurt or even die working for free, uninsured and without a pension for the Brahma Kumaris ... "It's your karma!!!".*

* (That means, "it's your fault for being stupid and giving over so much of yourself and your rights". Perhaps in your next life you will learn not to)
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Pink Panther

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Re: Mama monkey

Post27 Sep 2013

I would not wish the pain and suffering on anyone. And in the 1960s' they knew far less about cancer than we do now. If they say its her karma, they say she deserved it. no one "deserves' it - karmically or otherwise.

What you are talking about ex-l reflects the basic difference between religion and science.

Religion is essentially conservative, does not have within it any encouragement to challenge its own values or beliefs. Any study of history shows it is a series of brave individuals (rarely just one) over lengthy periods of time who force religious and political establishments to reform (establishments of any kind are, by their nature, political).

Science is to religion what Prometheus is to Olympus. Modern science and humanism generally, is based on testing and reforming itself. It is by nature progressive.

Karma philosophy as it was developed by the Brahmin establishment is a conservative, fatalistic justification of the state of things discouraging progress. The BK Brahmins use it in the same way, teaching that the only way to affect karma is through mind connection to their god (yes, that's right fringe dwellers, no other remembrance or love of other ideas of God will work).

Karma does not cause anything. The series of actions we take however, which are based on our decisions, sets up conditions and circumstances where certain things are more likely than others. Then over and above that, not created by anyone's personal choice, sh*t happens - earthquakes, meteors, ricocheting bullets...

Sure, it was Om Radhe's "karma" that she got cancer but in a bleedingly more obvious, less "metaphysical" way.
She made choices of how she lived her life which set up conditions conducive to cancer. She (the supposed "number#2 soul") was very unlucky to have been born in the time and place she was. We are all more fortunate to have our more progressive societies and education and health systems and wherewithall to know how to choose otherwise (which can never stop sh*t happening, unfortunately).

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