Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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littleo

Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post09 Jun 2013

littleo wrote:What is most absurd is that ex-l would readily distribute Murlis to BK followers. But this will only reinforce the cult in them, which has to be taken out of them. Someone explain me this.
ex-l wrote:It's simple.

Do you really have it in your heart to deny some little old lady who is too sick to go to her local center something that will give her comfort? Do you really have that small a heart? I don't believe in Christianity or Islam either ... but I would not deny, to take examples from the many requests we have had, a dying Christian a Bible, or a sick Muslim a Koran.

I find it difficult to believe that you cannot think that out yourself.

In addition, I believe in greater in principles than those of the BKWSU, such as 'equality of opportunity', 'freedom of information', and other democratic standards. I do not recognise the Brahma Kumari leadership's monopoly over their god, or any other god, nor the Murlis. It states clearly in the Murlis that any BK should have the right to copies, and so they should. If it is truly "God's" word, and is going to inspire all the religions of the next Kalpa Cycle like they say, then every human being in the world should have full rights of access. I am happy to fulfil that.

It's the most obvious and elementary thing to do ... have one big open database of every original Murli so that every individual can be on an equal footing with all information instantly at their fingertips.

Why would not you?

The correct answer is, "Ha-ji! ... That's a great idea. I'd love to help the BK/PBK family. I'll do my best to collate a 'text only' collection of all Murlis". Any other response and your account is deactivated until your willing to give something back to the community.

You have decided that the Murlis have to be in text format, but whatever you have as Murlis in pdf you could sent this easily through email to people, if you wished, with no further effort. It would serve the purpose. I understand your wish and it makes sense, it is good that documents are searchable and smaller. This mailing list that you speak about and i don't know what it is maybe is also something good.

The books that I have, as you see, are very low quality. This cannot be scanned and read by OCR. I cannot type in devanagari. I am also not good in Hindi to translate them. What do you want me to do? The Murlis that are available as pdf here and on the bk-pbk.info can be very easily turned to text if you wished to do so. I don't have other supplies of Murlis. If I had, I would share that.

OK, you bargain. But what is my guarantee that if I do this that you will send this to people and not just keep them with yourself.
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ex-l

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Re: Criticisms of Brahma Kumaris Info

Post09 Jun 2013

Firstly, I is capitalised in English. It is not i. We are trying to work to professional standards here.

Secondly, the evidence is here ... all the Murlis we have are online already for anyone to read, download or copy. It's not a matter of me deciding; it's a matter of the technology determining ... especially when you start to consider the increase in use of mobile phones as content receivers.

If you don't trust me, fine ... convert them to text, put them into order, and upload them onto some other public website, file server or wiki and I'll download them from there. As long as they are done and available, I don't care where they are.

The problem is, when they are PDFs of scanned images, the file size is FAR too big (slow up and download, heavy bandwidth, high storage space all of which has to be paid for) ... and then the content of them is unsearchable. There is no point in doing so.

I, personally, am not interested in half-assing anything and causing problems later somewhere down the line. Only best is good enough.

What is needed is 100% of the collection, 100% quality, official translations, and the most original and complete revisions possible. The BKWSU has them, the AIVV has them, individuals BKs and PBKs have them ... use your initiative and work as a team with others. Start a Facebook page and attract some help ... there are meant to be 1,000,000 followers now, surely 1% care?

What I personally want now is ZERO additional burden, ZERO addition work, ZERO distraction, ZERO more discussion on the matter. I have my own work and research to get on with.

littleo

Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post10 Jun 2013

The matter was about sending to people who had left their emails.
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ex-l

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Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post10 Jun 2013

I have just answered that question. I don't need to spell the reasons out any more.

littleo

Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post10 Jun 2013

I cannot understand what it is that I gain from this forum that you ask me to give something in return.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post10 Jun 2013

Litteleo - ex-l is only asking that any uploaded documents meet certain specifications to fit into the site standards.

If they are scanned, they are "photos" so they are not text-searchable by keyword etc. That's the start ...

If you only know how to scan, then you can use an online gallery like picasa or flickr to make them public.
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ex-l

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Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post10 Jun 2013

littleo wrote:I cannot understand what it is that I gain from this forum that you ask me to give something in return.

What you gain is a feeling of worthiness from having done something charitable to those souls of your own spiritual family who are asking for mercy. It has nothing to do with this forum at all.

I am amazed that you cannot see or value that or that their feelings, or even gratitude, are worth nothing to you.

'Not to do so' strikes me as being callous, insensitive, lazy and selfish ... and we don't accommodate those qualities here. Why should we give to you if you will not give to others?
    Why will no BK or PBK do so?
My interest is purely academic now but even I think it would be a fascinating project to document how the Murlis have evolved, or declined, over each revision. Start with the oldest and most complete versions and work forward to the most recent.
    If one person does the work, he will be serving the entire movement.
I know how to format them so they can be quickly and easily compared but I need the raw data, not piecemeal scraps.

I warned you not to waste any more time, energy and spoil the atmosphere of this forum over this issue any more.

Prove to us that you are worthy and charitable.

littleo

Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post12 Jun 2013

ex-l,

I have do ask, because I am not clear. There is a difference. It is different to have Murlis here and people coming and reading them. It is their responsibility. Something different is to send Murlis to them. You were talking about mailing list, does it mean sending?

It is important, because of the attitude towards the Murli. For example jann has expressed an idea that the poison comes from the Murli. What do you think?

You gave an example of an old woman who cannot get Murlis, so making this available to her is a good service. But if poison comes from the Murli, then her not being able to get Murlis is a favorable situation and sending this to her, or making it available for her would be taking part in the business with poison.

It also makes a difference in the way how Murlis are presented here.

moreclearnow

Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post12 Jun 2013

ex-l wrote:What you gain is a feeling of worthiness from having done something charitable to those souls of your own spiritual family who are asking for mercy. It has nothing to do with this forum at all.

I am amazed that you cannot see or value that or that their feelings, or even gratitude, are worth nothing to you.

This is just a trick and fallacious. Why would you want to this service? Are you referring to the people who come on this website asking for Murlis? They do land here because of the misleading name of the website as they think it's the Brahmakumaris website. At least be clear and honest about what do you want from the Murlis project. You want people to exit BKWSU and on the other hand you want to encourage others to do Murli service!!??

Now Sakar Murlis read in Madhuban are available on Internet streaming and recent Avyakt Murli videos are placed on the Madhuban web-site anyway.
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ex-l

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Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post12 Jun 2013

If you see negative and limited intentions, then it is a reflection of the negativity and limited intentions within you.

And, as you previously mocked me only recently littleo, you mistake the voice of "ex-l" for me, my voice, and those others involved in all this. For me, that is frustrating. Irritating even ... but I have become used to it when BK types do so and in becoming used to it I have had to accept that most BKs are somewhere on a spectrum between fearful and negative.

Fearful of doing anything outside of what their Dadis tell them, (e.g. they won't even do what their Baba says or tells them in the Murlis), or just plain negative (e.g. spiteful, jealous, lazy, unenlightened, distrustful and so on).

A few are even quite nasty. Backstabbers who take and use but cannot even say thank you.

If you don't understand, if you won't follow what your Baba says in the Murlis (which is to give them) and if you don't have the generosity of spirit, I cannot explain it to you ... and I cannot really be bothered to explain it all to you, especially when all you want to do is look for faults, twist or misrepresent my position and use it as an excuse for doing nothing.
[list]There is an old saying, "you cannot fit a quart [two pints], into a pint pot [one pint]" (... a pint is about half a litre).
Certainly if the BKs are now putting out Murlis ... just as with the historical revision that is going on ... it is partly or largely due to us pushing the issue here; doing so and making BKs talk about it. However, what I am aiming for is something better than what the BKs will do. By the time the BKs get around to it, it will be 10% of what it could have been if it was just done well.

If only supplied with the raw materials (text versions) ... I could have done it years ago.

An 'Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project' is something they could do in the snap of a finger if they wanted, but I guess it is not in their hearts nor fortune to do so. That it has not happened is more evidence of who and what they are like especially, as we write, they are still ripping the Murlis to pieces and changing them again! Changing God's words to suit themselves.

It does not matter where it is done first. Once they are done once, they can be copied a thousand times. Everyone can have a copy. We're merely offering the facilities to do so, a good cause to do so, and to do it better than the BKs will.

The bottomline is, are you going to be the ones who do it, are you going to be the ones who donate to these needy BK souls, or are you going to do nothing, look for the negative, and make excuses?

If you are not, then there's no point you sticking around here ... your hearts and minds are too small and there is too much nastiness in them.

littleo

Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post12 Jun 2013

I was interested in the position you have regarding the content of the Murlis. How do you qualify them?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post13 Jun 2013

The question "why is this forum encouraging the distribution of Murlis?" is valid enough.

The answer, on one level, is that the BK hierarchy want control and use access to Murli as one tool to manipulate people. They might, for example, banish people from centres possibly for things like personality clashes or other 'unforgivable crimes' and, because the banned person wants Murli, they use that as leverage over them.

As far as I know (not very far) access to online Murli needs subscription to a service, formal approval, passwords etc.

Not at all publicly accessible.
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ex-l

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Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post13 Jun 2013

Yes, I would agree with that, Pink, but it's not the entirety of the reasoning behind having an public collection.

I believe in letting people have what they want and working out things themselves. Empowering and uplifting, not suppressing and controlling. Concepts such as truth, equality of opportunity, democracy and so on are far bigger than the BKs' religion.

The BKs also went as far as to lock their copies so people could not copy them. Why, I have no idea because it's they who are chopping and changing them. It's wrong, coercive, open to unaccountable abuse ... and contrary to the Shrimat contained within the Murlis ... and it's so typical of religious elites the world and history over. Look at what happened when Wycliffe translated the Bible into plain English ...

Look at the sincerity of the individual BKs who are requesting them, and their perfectly reasonable reasons. How can you not respond to them?

Littleo ... I have no idea why you are fixated on me. It has nothing to do with me. It would not be exclusive to me. The stress on "Open and Public" means all others would have access to it.

Would I use such a database? Of course, I'd use it to check the BKs were being accurate or not, and the context for any quote they use and to further research the history. It would also document how and where the BKs are changing their philosophy. Of course, by the time the BKs do do it, they will have removed 90% of the material out of them!

Compare, for example, ISKCON's treatment of the Shrimad Bhagavatam (actually not great because it lack a search feature) and you will see how mean spirited the Brahma Kumaris are.

Now ... the question remains ... are you going to work on it or not? Because if you are not, I don't see any point in your sticking around here.

littleo

Re: Open Public Murli Collection & Distribution Project

Post13 Jun 2013

Now ... the question remains ... are you going to work on it or not? Because if you are not, I don't see any point in your sticking around here.


No, so you are free to deactivate my account.

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