Brahma Kumaris Info - the Truth about BK Meditation

Hi, firstly I apologise if my questions appear naive. I have spent enough time on this site over the last few days to realise that most people have loads more experience, knowledge and familiarity with the teachings than I do, so my questions are going to be really basic. However, I could never ask these questions at the centre I went to because I would be told that I should just allow the truth to settle with my soul and try not to involve my intellect, so here goes. I have chosen the word 'God' but this could also include other words such as 'Baba' and 'Supreme Soul.'

If we are all children of God and God exists beyond space and time, then why does he only ever communicate in 'Borat' and why does he speak in a language that has to be translated for the rest of the world to understand - in language and meaning? Why am I a double foreigner? I am not feeling put out because God does not speak from a fishing village in Europe (which is where I am from) because I would also be uncomfortable with that. I am always told that God remembers me when I remember him, and that double foreigners are double effort makers. If it is true that in the Iron Age most of the souls have lost energy and no longer know that they are a soul and are so lost to God, then surely they are incapable of even knowing there is another way, let alone looking for it.

Let's face it, the more I get into the teachings, the more I realise that I am required to jump through hoops to get close to God. Just being a child of God and sitting in meditation is apparently not enough. All those souls out there who don't even know there is anything beyond getting married, having kids, working in a job all their life with the occasional holiday and then a pension, are going to be overlooked completely. Surely what we need is huge signposts with big letters. If God goes beyond space then why only appear in one particular space and why exclude all those souls who are crying out for God and don't even know he is there, let alone where to find him?

Also, during my life and spiritual journey I have been inspired by many teachings and 'spiritual' books regardless of denomination. The Gita has many inspiring words and so does parts of the Bible, particularly Psalms. Another book I enjoyed was 'conversations with God' and other books whereby a spirit supposedly spoke through a human soul. I was told at the BK centre I attended that the original messages or the soul behind these teachings/books may have been a pure soul, but gradually over time this message would have been corrupted by the telling or translation of it by lesser human souls. Surely this would apply to the Murlis? They have been translated by human souls and interpreted by human souls. Why would the the translation of the Murlis be any more pure than the translation of the Bible or any other teaching?

And finally, why can I only have a relationship with God during the Confluence/Diamond Age? Surely throughout The Cycle I should have the option to seek help and guidance? I know that God is also subject to the Law of Karma, but being forced to blindly struggle for another 5000 years because of my behaviour in the previous 5000 years is a design fault and can only cause damage to myself and others. If in this birth I have absolutely no idea how I behaved during my previous birth, then I only have my experience of this birth to measure myself by and being unable to reform or seek guidance for another 5000 years is no use to me or the world.

Sorry to repeat myself. I know this is primary school stuff and most of you are at the university stage, but I am pleased I got it all out in the open!

Its not primary school stuff. It is the very essence of the experience. It is where the first hook, the first cut goes in and the first abuse of trust happens. And it is what we are here for.

Don't ever apologise for an honest, earnest, sincere question. They are the best one (it is the child that sees that the Emperor has no clothes on).

I have learnt far more about the Brahmakumaris, and life, being on this forum (and xBKChat) than years of going to the center ever taught me. Keep digging in.

sarah wrote: I was told at the BK centre I attended that the original messages or the soul behind these teachings/books may have been a pure soul, but gradually over time this message would have been corrupted by the telling or translation of it by lesser human souls. Surely this would apply to the Murlis?

And to stress what we have discovered on this forum, the Murlis have and are being directly edited by human beings in fundamental ways ... numbers, dates, people, words etc ... how can they be "of God" then. Try asking your BK teachers for the original unedited copies of the Murlis or the earlier English language 'Divine Decrees'.

The other truth is, of course, that the Beakies don't really believe that Christ and Buddha were that special or that pure. They believe that they were only half a pure or enlightened as Lekhraj Kripalani and, basically, failed or were doomed NEVER to be enlightened. That they got it all wrong and only the Beakies got it right. What The Knowledge actually says is, even the crappiest, nastiest, most dishonest and even sinful BK is ultimately more enlightened that the Buddha and more loveful that than the Christ.

I think this website is the huge signposts with big letters.

Seriously ex-lady, do you think I am still on speaking terms with my 'teachers' to ask them? I live in fear that they will view this site and have already worked out who I am!!! I might even have to change my identity

Yeah, I was really aware that they did not actually know that much about Buddhism. When asked what was the difference between them and Buddhism they replied 'they are exactly the same but without God.' That is such an arrogant thing to say. I think one of the things that really put me off was the derision of Christians, Buddhists and Jews. Ultimately we are all cut from the same cloth and we are all just trying to make sense of reality. Some of us join a group and wear a certain costume, and others prefer to just try and be a pleasant person and live in a way that is as peaceful as possible. We all seek the truth in varying degrees. No one has the monopoly on the truth at the end of the day, do they?

Double Foreigner - what does this mean? The question has to be answered in BK speak.

Firstly, the soul's immortal home is the Soul World as is God's. As Shiva Baba borrows a body it may be described as - "the traveller from the far off land has come into the foreign land". This is a song whose meaning is that God has come from the Soul World and borrowed a body in this world, a "foreign" world.

Similarly, the soul's real home is the Soul World. BKs practice 'returning home', from there they take their own body in this foreign world. Each soul that has taken a body here has at some time come from their sweet home at which time their batteries were fully charged. In this way BKs imitate the Supreme Soul i.e. Shiva Baba. People from outside India are foreigners to India, as well as coming from the Soul World to take a body. Hence the expression "double foreigners."

The language of the Murli is deep and concentrated. It is also very poetic and very powerful. "The traveller from the far off land has come into the foreign land" can instantly evoke, for example, the consciousness of being an immortal soul listening in the Confluence Age to Shiva Baba speaking through the lips of Brahma in order to create the Golden Age. So much in so few words!

Similarly, the expression "double foreigner" has great potency for BKs, evoking all of the above plus the fact that they come from a country other than India - in just two words!

It is said that only a cup of gold can hold the milk of the lioness. This means that living according to Brahmin principles for a period of time regenerates the intellect so that once more the ablity to "catch" the incredible inspirations that the Murli contains is awakened. Many are clever with the Murli on a human level but remain unaware that one moment of Murli inspiration can make one far happier than many lifetimes of human life.

The ability to understand eternal knowledge is latent in everyone, the Murli guides souls to truly "catch" the inspirations. If interactions with BKs are difficult, you could try just listening to and thinking about the the Murli for a period of time. Make the whole thing an enjoyable learning experience and just trust that what is not clear to you now will become clear in a very short while.

This study is very worthwhile, this Godly Inheritance is far beyond anything that human beings can give or are aware of. There is a very good reason for you being attracted to this study at this time.

Hope this is helpful, double foreigner!

There is also a lot by reading the Murli that i find not very enjoyable.

Hello Jannisder,

Perhaps you would care to be more specific. For example take a Murli and highlight the point or points which you do not enjoy.

Kindest regards,

John

The Sakar Murlis are highly inappropriate for Westerners, and anyone of a basic degree of enlightenment. Is is not god, it was Lekhraj Kripalani dealing with his issues and the issues of his immediate community at that time. It is entirely wrong that they are elevated to such mythic status.

Taken literally and objectively, a lot of it is bonkers and completely wrong. "God" does not know what he is talking about. Of course, it was not "God". Some of it is racist and chauvinist, some of it is spiteful and jealous, they are divisive and supremacist. The majority of it is at the same level of pig ignorance that the majority of the BK community, at that time, was at. It is no surprise to me that the Biblical words we use in English are derived from, Satanos and Diablos, mean (approximately) 'the one who accuses' and 'the one that casts apart'.

The Sakar Murlis are full of accusations and divisions. But, truly, to see them in their proper light, we need to look at the slightly earlier 'Divine Decrees' to capture a feel of the authentic BK state of mind. The Avyakt Murlis are just like sweet icing ... on a turd. All that ridiculous "rallying of the troups" and exhortations to go grab VIPs ... do we really believe God has nothing better to do? Or that is the best he can do? Has anyone heard him have a decent two way conversation with anyone? At best, it is still just Lekhraj Kripalani off his face in some other dimension.

There is an old Sufi story that goes something along the lines of ...

there was a traveller that had made his success abroad who in his final years asked to be taken back to the original village his family came from. The guide led him for days up into the mountains over pass after pass until they came upon a little run down deserted village with no water and no people. "This is your village, you came too late, the rains failed and every one died".

The wealthy merchant broken down and wept and beat himself with remorse crying out to God for forgiveness. He promised that in the future he would do whatever was necessary to pay for his indulgences in the far off city and that he would change his life to help others in need.

At that point, the guide stopped him and told him to get up. He wanted to show him something. Over the next ridge he pointed out a peaceful and prosperous little village surrounded by fields where the people worked hard, share life together and were content. "OK, you were tricked. Here is your village ... but never forget the vows you made to God".

I guess I do not need to spell out what it means but I want to underline other elements that are involved in the Brahmakumaris Murli versions.

Firstly, there is a whole load of "false memory syndrome" going on. False memory because, literally, the Yugya's history has been falisfied but false also in the sense that people without any connection whatsoever are encouraged to beleive it is their history, their family, their previous reincarnation and so on. During the BK meditation, individuals are hypnotically induced into a hypnagogic state appearing to be fully awake but technically closer to sleeping.

During this experience, the sub-conscious mind is very open and susceptible to suggestion. This is why they do meditation before class, to soften up the mind first. Once it is soft, all these concepts, false histories and emotional triggers are implanted in to mind day after day repetitively until they build up inside an entirely new personality which the leaders are able to pull on. I do not think this is consciously done. To some degree, all religions and cults do it. So do parents to children with bed time stories. But it is going on.

The other thing to realise is that the general public in India, and Indian gurus especially, love little 'ditties' ... little word plays ... and the Brahmakumaris are full of them. They mean nothing really. They are just playful, loveful even, language using dual meanings or twists of words. They share a very common structure, usually in pairs, e.g. "double foreigners and double effort makers". You have heard load of them, e.g. "no hurry, no worry, no curry".

They are child-like in their appeal, and are used and appeal to the Brahmakumaris leaders, because many of them are child-like ... and it 'remembers them' of their "childhood" in BK life. That is to say, they act as mnemonics, triggers back to the child-like states of mind, the beakies love to have you in where you are dumb, dependent and uncritical ... and therefor not a threat to their stage and status. Anyone who has ever asked a serious question to many of the leaders know how they act when threatened. Few get the chance to even to try as the questions and answers are increasingly being filtered (e.g. see Jayanti on BBC World filtering, not just translating, Janki).

Now we know that Lekhraj Kirpalani did not act as the original medium but just interpreted the messages from the original mediums. He may well have been experiencing some heightened state of consciousness ... but it was still passing through his cultural filters. His culture that he thought was supreme. It was not. Do they still have relevance for Indians ... may be? Do they have deeper metaphoric significance, as per the PBKs, some ... but probably not as much as PBKs wish. Only time will tell.

So ... double foreigner ... it is suggesting to you that you are a soul, like John says, but also that your original and most valuable home is India which may not be true at all. Again it is being used to substantiate what may actually be a valueless myth.

Faith is positive and doubt is negative. Will doubting a religion make me happy? I am afraid not Will doubting myself make me happy? Nope! Faith is true strength, it is not a compensation for weakness. Some people are attracted to the BK's knowledge and some are not.

As one learns to focus one's energies strength grows. Few people experience incredible happiness in this world. Self mastery would be regarded by some as a dream, to others it is a possibility and to others an experience. Effort must be made to attain anything worthwhile.

I wonder if the analysis of life that says that bad qualities bring unhappiness and virtues bring happiness can cross cultures. To dismiss a poem or inspiration because it comes from another culture clould be a great loss especially if the inspiration is universal. Each person must, for themselves, explore this life. Each person has to find their own star. To have faith in oneself and to have the faith that there are marvellous opportunities in everyday life can be very useful. Strange, but if I think there are no opportunities for me they are not there!

Each person comes into this world alone and they leave it alone. While they are here in reality they stand alone, even when seemingly part of a group. The mesmeric effect of the world, souls influenced and attracted by matter can be seen everywhere. People adopt the thinking of others as true for many reasons.

To develop the heart and mind is good. Thinking for oneself becomes increasingly possible - with practice. To examine great analyses usefully one has to weigh and consider. The Murli study has great value for those who understand it. The sweetest thing can seemingly have a bitter taste, similar to saccharin on the tongue.

Simple is best. Many are swept away by the hurly burly of the world. In silence we learn to create.

john morgan wrote:Faith is positive and doubt is negative.

Where does blind faith, or faith beyond the point of reason, come into this binary scale of yours? Are you saying I don't understand the Murli? As presented by the BKs, its fairly basic, is not it. Of course, it would be easier to have faith if they had not chopped out all the bits that have and explained their historical re-writes ... until those issues are address, you are investing in a fairy story. And not a particularly artful one at that.

Who is or needs to "doubt"? Let's just look at the facts as they are spoken. Realism, and even a pinch of skepticism, are the salt of existence.

I find your position uncomfortably strange John, they have chucked you out and banned you from receiving Murlis, and still you are entranced by it all? How much abuse can you handle? I hope that at least you find faith in the Murlis that are on this site and growing in number.

The Murli study has great value for those who understand it.

So the Murlis says. You can see how that works', the emperor has very fine clothes to those that can appreciate them ... to the rest of us he is just butt naked. I am looking for a better god.

Hi ex-l,

The whole thing is to me quite simple. I like the Murli and at different times cannot help but think deeply about it. The different attitudes, states of being or mind, different consciousnesses etc. are all very interesting to me. Life is very fluid.

As regards the BKs, either they understand me or they don't. I am not sure which and it doesn't matter that much any more. At different times things have hit the fan and I've worked them out. To my surprise, I have been equal to the task. Very much to my surprise in recent years the Murli has given me a very constructive framework for life and experiences. An effect of this is that I seem to be able to play a useful part in situations that the BKs wouldn't for some reason touch.

The BKs have no inheritance to give, but God does. I can be theist if I choose. This knowledge brings out what I am and reaches the parts other knowledge doesn't reach (thank you Carlsberg!). Perhaps the Murli teaches one how to think? Initially, I needed the BKs but perhaps now I am growing up.

I can choose whether to protest, blame, find fault etc, sometimes I do; mostly I don't. My reaction to any situation is of interest. Sometimes I just let karma play itself out by watching, understanding and moving on.

I am very appreciative of the hospitality shown me here, the powers of accommodation in this forum seem to me to be quite remarkable. I missed the forum when it was offline and will support its existence for as long as it continues to give sanctuary to so many very good people who are experiencing temporary difficulties. If the BKs disband tomorrow, it will make no difference to me. The Murli is still useful.

There is a world of causes and a world of effects. I try to be in the world of causes most of the time. So ex-l, its nice to talk to you again. It may be true to say that the incongruities of living affect me more than most and its very good of you to point that out.

In the world of Buddhist Debating, some are able to argue both sides of a debate and win each time. It has been said that the organism with the greatest range of responses is best able to survive. Sub-concious attitudes can create blind spots which limit one's range of responses. Life can be so amusing, often when I am busy taking the splinter out of my neighbours eye he is busy taking the log out of my own.

I've always had great difficulty with "Authority." I often wonder if it really exists, I will continue to until it really does walk in through my door.

Thanks to all.

Just to underline, I wholly support the unlimited right of access and provision of the Murlis to all.

If I come across as bitter, it is more because of the ridiculous system that has been built up around them and the disrespect with which they have been handled. Its as if we are in the early days of Christianity and already the rulers and merchants within the church are chopping and changing the scriptures to suit themselves.

We have often wondered what this god does on his days off from the BKWSU. Do you think there is more to it that is presented on stage at Abu? Has the rest of the world moved on from the Indian Bhakti beating of the Sakar Murlis? Can they tune into a different channel of his?

Can we, as you seem to suggest, move on beyond the point where the BKWSU is become stuck in its ritual?

I think it was in one German center where they tried an experiment of ditching the Sakar Murlis and just taking that year's Avyakt Murlis to go into real depth about them. Someone else has to provide the details about it. Apparently the leadership did not like it one bit and flipped, there was a big scene with leading figures leaving the BKWSU but not the Baba nor the Principles. Which the leadership then responded to by putting out malicious and misleading gossip about

Is there a possibility that on the scale of spiritual evolution, the BKWSU is just one stopping off point and that one can rise above or beyond it? That one has the choice whether to stop off for a while to do that particular kind of service to those particular souls and pay court to their kings ... or that one can move on?

I am cautious of its utter absolutism and supremecism because I have seen too much of its reality over decades. I sort of feel compassion for its god and wish that the whole lot of them would just move on. You can see where that puts me from the world view it puts out, a dangerous heretic, an impure Shudra, an anti-party even but here I still am working away at making the whole thing public and having my 'dharma battles' as your Buddhists would say.

So you are right, one will always find crazy virtue and crazy wisdom in the most unlikely places. Its funny but right at the beginning of my BK career, I always thought that the Murlis were a mix of Lekhraj Kirpalani and Shiva Baba. The Sisters taught and argued no. It was all God. Now I know the bigger truth of the history and for 20 years they had not a clue and about Shiva Baba and Lekhraj Kirpalani as a god was good enough for them. I am glad I went off on my own journey and encourage others to do so free of the guilt and fear.