The use of music during BK meditation

Many BKs in the West used to note how disturbed their stage would be when mid-meditation, it would be rocked by some rollicking Bhakti number. On the other hand, at least those songs used to wake up those that had dozed off and for those that long meditations were a punishment for, indicated that either they could escape now or that there was mercifully only 20 minutes to go ...

"You just have to give the introduction of the Father that – remember the Father while standing and sitting. It is not that one must sit at one place. It is only when someone does not remember that they are made to sit in a gathering so that one gets power in gathering." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 17.09.07, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba, translated by a PBK)

Had we followed the above Shrimat, there would not have been any necessity for producing hundreds of BK songs/music cassettes. It is only because we have to make people sit in remembrance for hours together in the name of 'Yoga bhatti' or 'Yoga for ... soul' that we had to produce songs to keep ourselves entertained, alert and awake.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Let's be honest. There has been, and no doubt still is, a ridiculous amount of Bhakti with regards music, especially these Hindi songs.

Musicians who create new songs, inspired by Yoga, have been walked over by others who swear by these religious Indian tapes and CDs, songs. If you have fresh inspired music created from people's Yoga experiences, it surely cannot get any better, in my mind anyway.

To crush it out of fear, or because it does not fit with your own religious beliefs, is tragic. Let the music grow. Let the musicians flourish, without worshiping them. There are a variety of flowers in the garden, let there also be a variety of music.

Of course, things may have changed, we need to watch for that.

Had we followed the above Shrimat, there would not have been any necessity for producing hundreds of BK songs/music cassettes. It is only because we have to make people sit in remembrance for hours together in the name of 'Yoga bhatti' or 'Yoga for ... soul' that we had to produce songs to keep ourselves entertained, alert and awake.

Do you think that there is a danger in attracting souls by the nature of things? Would it not mean then that you have to keep them fed by feeding them new songs, new pictures, new books?

Yes, I agree sparkal. There is a sort of sentimental Bhakti back to the times when those songs had significance and then in Westerns and others that did not experience them, there is a sort of Bhakti to the Seniors experience.

There are a few BK meditation tapes in my closet that are titled "Epic of Silence", "Silent Sound" and "Silent Waves". I had expected therefore to have a blank recording of nothing (or better still, blank tapes). However, there's music on them. I demand my money back. It's hard to try to buy nothing but in the end you are given something, case should to the Office of UNfair trading ... .

I think the centres should play ZZTop or Black Sabbath etc at 100watts. If you can meditate with this type of music, then you must tbe doing really well in Yoga ! So can anyone put on these tapes in the middle of a meditation session at a centre, and see if any Dadis or SS or center-in-charges have a reaction to it ? If they do, thus all have failed !! Beyond the senses ?

To crush it out of fear, or because it does not fit with your own religious beliefs, is tragic. Let the music grow. Let the musicians flourish, without worshiping them. There are a variety of flowers in the garden, let there also be a variety of music.

Omshanti. Personally, I am not against music. In fact, I love music. But when I say that I am a follower of ShivBaba, then I will have to justify my actions vis-a-vis ShivBaba's Shrimat (directions) as contained in the Murlis.

Just as we all view BKWSU through the microscope, my office colleagues also judge every action of mine to see if they are in accordance with The Knowledge that I often discuss with them. Whenever I commit any mistake, like if I speak even a little ill of someone, they point fingers at me saying that you go to that organization and you speak like this. If I wear anything that attracts their attention, they say I am getting diverted from my path of spirituality.

In the same way, when we criticize the Bhakti being done by Hindus saying it is like playing with dolls, then somewhere we will also have to justify our actions in producing hundreds of cassettes of songs (and other forms of Bhakti as discussed in other threads).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

I think the centres should play ZZTop or Black Sabbath etc at 100watts. If you can meditate with this type of music, then you must tbe doing really well in Yoga ! So can anyone put on these tapes in the middle of a meditation session at a centre, and see if any Dadis or SS or center-in-charges have a reaction to it ? If they do, thus all have failed !! Beyond the senses?

Very good idea. It is easy to remember sitting in a quiet center with a peacefull music between silence. But there won't be any such place at the end. Nowhere. Only noise, screams, panic and chaos. A little bit different situation from center meditation class.

One story. Firstly please come into soul consciousness!!!

Once I had gone to the center. Meditation had started 5 minutes before. The center was a flat with 3 rooms. Suddenly I wanted to go the toilet. Seriously. Nobody had seen me. Everybody was doing Yoga. So there was nothing else I could do. I entered the toilet, took off my clothes in order to not make them impure and had a bowels movement (don't know more proper words). After that I looked down the corridor, nobody was there. So I moved to the bathroom. Took shower, and dressed.

After that I went to the meditation/Murli room and remembered Father a little. Then there was Murli. And THEN WAS TALK with center-in-charge. I hadn't seen her in such stage ever. It was huge, HUGE anger. You must understand her correctly. She is a very good Brahmin, very good center-in-charge, very good person. But she did not expected that somebody would take a shower during meditation. That somebody will make a noise during meditation.

Fortunately after that incident (it was end of september) she went to Madhuban. And, of course, she thought a lot of about that issue there. When she came back, she told me that she decided for herself; no matter what was happening - she would stay in remembrance.

So there are a lot of things to change in that system of higher education.

With regards, Shankar.

I think the centres should play ZZTop or Black Sabbath etc at 100watts. If you can meditate with this type of music, then you must tbe doing really well in Yoga ! So can anyone put on these tapes in the middle of a meditation session at a centre, and see if any Dadis or SS or center-in-charges have a reaction to it ? If they do, thus all have failed !! Beyond the senses?

Very good idea. It is easy to remember sitting in a quiet center with a peacefull music between silence. But there won't be any such place at the end. Nowhere. Only noise, screams, panic and chaos. A little bit different situation from center meditation class. One story. Firstly please come into soul consciousness!!!

Yes, this is what is taught in the Advanced Knowledge that one should be able to remember Baba or be in soul consciousness even when the atmosphere is noisy or the circumstances are not favourable because in the end when the Destruction (as predicted by BKs/PBKs) takes place, then the circumstances of this world will not be such as to allow us to sit and remember Baba in silence.

The situation in the end need not necessarily be noisy due to battles, civil wars etc but there could be circumstances where there is no supply of electricity, water etc. The body, bodily relationships, and bodily needs would be pulling the soul towards these and if someone is able to remain constant in soul consciousness or in the remembrance of God, then it would be a real achievement of having followed the path of knowledge.

I appreciate the gesture of your BK teacher in realizing her shortcoming and accepting it in front of you. We must learn from her. Many a times we do commit mistakes but we hesitate to accept it in front of the person towards whom we were guilty.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Omshanti. For those who may be interested in listening to some of the Hindi songs (from Hindi films) which used to be played before/during the Sakar Murlis narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba, they can see the following link:

MusicIndiaOnline.Com

I could find one or two songs which I had only read in the Sakar Murlis but never heard them myself (like Dheeraj dhar manwa, jiska saathi hai bhagwaan usko kya rokey aandhi toofaan, etc.)

I had once seen an Audio CD prepared by BKs which contains all the songs that used to be played before Sakar Murlis during Brahma Baba's time. But one can access that CD only if one purchases it from the BKWSO. So, those who would like to listen to these songs free of cost, they can see the above link.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

So, those who would like to listen to these songs free of cost, they can see the above link.

Well done. Strike another anti-capitalist blow against the Dark Empire and fill in the gaps in our knowledge and understanding. I wonder of the Brahma-kumaris paid license fees for all those public performances and CDs?

Well done. Strike another anti-capitalist blow against the Dark Empire and fill in the gaps in our knowledge and understanding. I wonder of the Brahma-Kumaris paid license fees for all those public performances and CDs?

For the purpose of record, I am producing below my post from another thread on this subject:

The role of music in the overall mental, spiritual and physical health has been acknowledged in India (and possibly abroad) since ages. I had the first hand experience of the soothing effect of music on one's health in the last couple of days when I played Indian classical devotional vocal music (thanks to http://www.musicindiaonline.com) when I have been down with cold (running nose, sneezes and body pain). When not playing the music, I felt like sleeping continuously to forget the disease, but when I played the above music, I am able to sit on the computer for long hours and work even when I am ill. Although Baba has not encouraged music in the Murlis, nevertheless, He says that one can play certain songs to increase the zeal and enthusiasm.

As regards the BK songs, I like only the old ones produced in the 1970s (during the satopradhan period of the BK music).

When I visited the above mentioned website of Indian Music, I was surprised to see the musical works of world famous Indian meastros, like Pandit Jasraj, MSSubbulakshmi, etc.

When, for the sake of promotion of music (and health, like in my case), these maestros are ready to provide the collection of their best works to everyone who wants to access them, I feel ashamed to say that I am a child of God, but if you want to remember my/your/our God with the help of BK songs, you will have to buy these songs (which do not compare at any level with the devotional music of the Indian maestros) to remember Him because I have copyrighted even these songs.

When we are not even ready to provide BK songs online to the souls who want to come closer to God, then how can we expect the actual songs (Gita) i.e. words of God in the form of Murlis to be provided online??? I hope someone from the BK administration is reading this!!! They can correct me if any of my above statements is wrong. I don't know if the above site that I have quoted is also one of the competitors of BKWSO Corporation. I suppose these Indian maestros, through their devotional music are doing more spiritual service than all the BK songs combined together.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Let's see if we can find a higher tree to climb here for a better view. Animals in a zoo may stop creating, or, pro creating. It may be about the songs which have / are not written due to lack of confidence/ encouragement/ outlets therefore.

Talking heads album "fear of music" comes to mind. There is respect for the old music of the early Yagya which ignores new things, music which is considered not valid because it is not of those times. This to me is Bhakti. I am not saying discard the songs of the past, they are the early history, what of these times and the souls of the future?

The Murli has made it clear that the "deities" will write songs poems and artistic performance about these times of creation. This suggests that there may be great interest in the times of creation, in the future. Ah, yes, Destruction. I suspect that, yes, Bhakti will be destroyed along with all other outmoded ways of thinking, over time. Indeed, the interest in the times of creation will last for the whole of the next cycle, whatever memorial form it takes, including the burning of libraries, the confiscation of scriptures and the twisting of truths.

Those who take interest and want to here the story of creation may also want to here the more obscure less popular songsters, poets, painters and spiritual drama queens. The ambient instrumental music tells its own story with feeling, reflecting consciousness of a certain time, as does other music in existence. The current ambient stuff for them may be the equivalent of us listening to silent movie piano music or old clasical compositions. It tells a story in its own r.....eh, in its own way. But feel free to wipe the slate clean aka Destruction, I don't mind, but I think we need to be a little more mature about it, less black and white.

Souls should therefore keep on keeping on with the creations, even if they feel ignored and shut out. It may not always be that way, if not for us, then for future generations. We should have faith and not rush things before their time, at the same time. Go with the flow rather than push too hard or we may push it farther away. You don't need electricity to sit with an acoustic guitar or other and tell the story of creation.

What we do now is creating our future. What kind of Golden Age can we look forward to? Certainly not this drachonian sterile straight jacket stuff being banded around, that is for sure.

Future generations should enjoy complete transparency and have access to all writings of knowledge, without bits being grafted on or amputated. Song, story, poetry, drama will play a big part in delivering the story, I presume. I wonder if souls are aware of this when they shut others out, cramping and subduing creations which tell the story of creation? Or what it was like in the trenches and not only from God's/Angels lofty viewpoint. There is a need for tact and a degree of incognito of course.

Story time
Grand daughter, while being Read a story by Grandad of the times of creation - 'Grandad, what did you do during the war of creation?'

Grandad gets ready to proudly present the story, then gets an unwanted uncomfortable feeling which he quickly suppresses with a quick fix mind set and eventually gives something which will do the job -' I was on the front line my dear, in the thick of it' but Grandad holds back on the part where he and others prevented some from expressing their life's work, their experience of creation through their eyes and mind, then realises that there would be others who did not even bother expressing it even because people like She/ He suppressed them. It did not seem important at the time, seen as a form of ego even, clouded by Bhakti and all sorts, fear, that's it, he was being responsible to God's agenda. Or was it simply that Guru types wanted to quell any competition for adulation from the thirsty masses, masking it as wanting only the teachings to be glorified?

Grand daughter, whose generation will be responsible for future generations of souls (even though the world is to be "destroyed" yet the Murli says there will not be total Destruction), may want to know the story of creation, may be subtle enough to know and feel that Grandad was holding back on something, and also feel that there should be no wars of any kind ever again

(OK, OK ... playing the old emotional card)

Well done. Strike another anti-capitalist blow against the Dark Empire and fill in the gaps in our knowledge and understanding. I wonder of the Brahma-Kumaris paid license fees for all those public performances and CDs?

Om Shanti. You are good soul ex-l, but I think that you are also clever one. If so, then you know that there is nothing black or white in this world now. Everything is grey. So my wish to you: become more objective. You are showing dark side of BKWSU very well but what about light side? Indeed WE are to solve all this problems, because only we can see them clearly. So my wish is to see detailed plan of the BKWSU reforming or at least of destroying impurity in it. It is easy to name deffects, but can you name ways to fix them?

With best wishes, Shankar

PS there are a lot of souls here with sign "Reforming BK" under their nicknames, however I hadn't seen any such topic.

I wonder of the Brahma-Kumaris paid license fees for all those public performances and CDs?

I remember a scene when Madhuban produced hundreds of copies of some Western BK songs CD without permission from the copyright owner ... Some senior westerner blowing up in anger ...

What would we expect from those who are meant to become the supreme masters of the world? We use the law at our own convenience!

Nothing new!

I remember a scene when Madhuban produced hundreds of copies of some Western BK songs CD without permission from the copyright owner ... Some senior westerner blowing up in anger ...

Surely it must be the highest charity to nourish those that nourish the world ... to donate one's gifts to serve the BK FAMILY? Even I can see that.

Hereon in, I am going to charge you all 2c for each of my posts that you read ... please send your cheques to my secret numbered Swiss bank account ... zzzzzzz! I trust you as Brahmin souls to be honest and PAY UP NOW!!!

Now, I have another plan ... why just the musicians? Suggest that the kitchens at Madhuban are privatized and that we pay the chefs for their recipes, anyone with a good service idea must have it trademarked and every one else pass on any business and credits that come of it back to them, the movie makers must have a fee every time their movies are played and so on.

But is not it strange how the 'simple souls' that cook, clean, wash up, look after the children and teach the 7 Day Course get nothing again? Ah, Bliss! their rewards must surely come from God for he is the Lord of the Poor!

Meditate on this, hippy .