Raja Yoga Bunk? My mind is Paramdigm, I am Shiva.

Proclaiming ones self as God has gotten more then one head chopped off, but this is definitely a point to consider. By the way, I’m not about to reveal myself, bro neo, as God. I am saying maybe we all are, at least from the following perspective.

“When I have Yoga with Baba, how do I know it’s (Baba) something outside myself?” This was a question one of my mouth born children asked me when I was a Pajama wearing Double Foreign BK. I told him, it must be, because we experience something outside ourselves. LMAO! Yeah, I also used to say sex is bad.

OK, what I said may be true, but lets look at a more logical and reasonable understanding of the dynamics involved in Yoga. The BK’s tell us that if we think of a person, where they are, and their personal characteristics we will have a mental link with that person. Iron Aged brains aren’t very sensitive to Yoga so it doesn’t work so well with other people. Bap Dadda on the other hand has super puka brain (or soul) waves and so our Yoga reaches him, although we may not get direct feed back.

Now consider that what we are actually having Yoga with is not something out side our selves, but with a thought that we have created in our mind. We are taught to create a conscious being of light that emanates all security, love and power. By having Yoga with this light we can be immersed and experience these qualities. If our Iron Aged brains can’t receive direct communication with Bap Dadda, but we can experience positive qualities it makes more sense that at least the majority of our Yoga is not with something outside ourselves but with an idea we have created within ourselves.

No doubt it is a brilliant idea to have one source that we have Yoga with that can be a panacea to all our woes, and no doubt that because hundreds of thousands of people concentrate on this one image it is a real force within humanity’s collective unconscious, but the fact remains the majority of us non-psychic, Nike wearing, Coca-Cola drinking peoples Yoga is with our own mind and our own ideas.

Everything we have created in our own mind is an archetype which is in someway connected to some part of ourselves. This is a fantastic thing. There is a part of our own self that can fill us with waves of unlimited peace and contentment. So playing with ourselves can be very beneficial!

Nice theory neo, but where’s the proof? The proof is in the pudding my dears. Try this experiment and tell me I am wrong. For a week (or like 15 seconds for us seasoned mediators) try having Yoga with a nice warm bowl of mango pudding, giving it the characteristic of an almighty deity. That’s right, imagine a medium sized bowl of delicious yellow pudding. It glows with an other worldly radiance. This is The Pudding of creation and it has a consciousness. It loves you. It is the source of all love and joy. Become one with The Pudding and become one with the warm love and peace. Feel your Sanskars being purified by the steam of the hot caramel topping. YOU ARE THE PUDDING!

That's why it is nessesary that this Supreme Soul Shiva enters a body and expresses the qualities we attribute to him and we can have a practical experience of something outside of us.

I think this is the main idea, a corporeal, practical, concrete God with his own will and not like we put him to be. We say God have sent me this and that and he says, "I do not all these, but they are fixed in the drama, my part is to purify you souls who are my children"

The relationship of child and Father should be practically experience, otherwise can why is one point of light god, different to other point of light of ordinary human? So this point of light on entering a body gets revealed that amongst all other souls. He has the highest stage of the intellect, constant incorporeal stage, unlimited love, ocean of knowledge will be when he narrates knowledge and not when a point of light. We call ocean of knowledge, ocean of peace will be when we experience peace when we think of him, when we meet, when we experience the vibrations he emits, when we remember our practical experience through the body. It is said whatever we see, hear, touch, we remember.

When a mother and Father love their child, or the teacher the student, or the guru the follower they are in bodies. Through the body everything can be experienced.

Otherwise can why is one point of light god, different to other point of light of ordinary human?

This is a very common PBKism ... is it also a BKism? Its given as a "proof". One of their abstract logical extensions that are used to build up to the conclusion that they want; God in Lekhraj Kirpalani or God in Virendra Dev Dixit.

Why, should one point of light NOT be different from any others? I have no problem in conceiving that one might sense different from another. It is a question of spiritual sensation not visual coordinates of a body. I think this is all rooted in plain, old fashioned Hindu Bhakti ... i.e. God in a statue, and statue worship, rather that God as an abstract philosophical concepts.

Its all part and parcel of the consciousness of the individuals they want to establish as their markets, e.g. mainly Hindu and not too intelligent works for some Christians too because of the Christ pre-programming. It seems we, someone of us, have God receptors programmed into us at an early age and others, including spirits, are willng to come along and plug into with their ideas.

Yes indeed. The proof of the spiritual vibrations and the spiritual vibrator. If this is enough proof for you that God almighty has come, multimillion fold congratulations to ya!

As for me, and other ponderers of logic and real evidence, there seems to be something lacking from this proof. This proof is based on one’s own personal perceptions, which is good, considering most ‘facts’ of the BKWSU are based on second hand testimonials. However, is this proof truly based on unbiased personal experience or is it based on a perception created in our own minds from getting all hyped up about what others have told us?

Sure, the Mediums must have great and powerful vibrations, no less then a Hollywood, or Bollywood, supastar. They have hundreds of thousands of fans sending their love and adoration through constant Yoga. But is Bap Dadda’s vibration really any different from say Tom Cruise or Britney Spears?

OK, so maybe you are one of those people whose feelings are always right. I envy you. There have been more then one occasion when I have had an irrefutable feeling that a stock was going to sore in the stock market. I bought it, and FRAK! It falls like a dead pigeon. YOU (if you’re a vibrator worshipper, like I was before), on the other hand, must be a trillionare, because your feelings are always right, and you always know when things are as they seem.

Hi, Neo. Your "mango pudding post" and proposed visualization, aroused in me the interest in understanding better the role "self suggestion"plays in my/our minds. Have we made it all up, with the valid contribution of a cunning sect?

Ex- L, would you like to expand on the last sentence of your post, where you say;

It seems we, someone of us, have God receptors programmed into us at an early age and others, including spirits, are willing to come along and plug into with their ideas.

My self, and many BKs it seems according to stories I have heard, felt as if for months or years, or even since their childhood prior to the "alokik" BK birth (coming in Gyan, accepting Raja Yoga doctrine as a worthy one), had been "prepared" through some "touching", some grace or inspiration God gave us and this paved the way for us to become BKs. Made every thing smooth, easy transition from a more normal life to that of an adept, some times really out of touch and fanatic.

Some choose to become vegetarian or celibate, well before some BK teacher explained them about disciplines. I was in a sort of enjoyable search for a true, meaningful, spiritual path on a "mystic" trip during which I felt accompanied by some benevolent protecting energy, and inspired to have early morning meditation, offering flowers to God ...

I had developed hopelessness in the way things were going on on the Planet etc ... so, when someone gave us Gyan and Shrimat, it resonated within. Here's a question with no answer yet; "who came knocking at the door of my heart?". What is it when we feel we "recognize" a soul, be it human or divine? What does it mean, when senior BKs tell us about our Avyakt birth and Avyakt sustenance? Did you also have a strong feeling of bond to God when you were called "long lost and now found children"? as if it was really true, that we were meeting again after 5000 years (well, 5,000 because we were told so!!)???

Neo asking again about "perceptions":

However, is this proof truly based on unbiased personal experience or is it based on a perception created in our own minds from getting all hyped up about what others have told us? Sure, the Mediums must have great and powerful vibrations, no less then a Hollywood, or Bollywood, supastar. They have hundreds of thousands of fans sending their love and adoration through constant Yoga.

Could it all be a subjective experience that became more objective by being fed with information and imagination? Given to us as if it was actual facts and by the "power of the gathering", some kind of collective hysteria, like what they had in the old Om Mandali's days?

In my opinion it is all the power of psychology. Keep telling yourself one thing and you shall believe it.

Let someone else tell you something (BKWSU) and you keep telling yourself, you shall believe it.

My self, and many BKs it seems according to stories I have heard, felt as if for months or years, or even since their childhood prior to the "alokik" BK birth (coming in Gyan, accepting Raja Yoga doctrine as a worthy one), had been "prepared" through some "touching", some grace or inspiration God gave us

Yes, that is a big part of the BK myth. Psychologically, rather like the acceptance of psychic's predictions, we are desperate and able to filter out all those events and experience that did not lead us on or draw us closers, the mundane ones and the negative.

I'd say it could work in two ways;

a) yes, you were being prepared but that does not mean those that were preparing you were ultimately ethical or trustworthy ... you were just being prepared. Conmen "prepare" their victims for a long time before stinging them, so do spooks.

b) yes, you were being prepared but you mistook those of the BKWSU for those that were REALLY preparing you. The BKWSU, and its followers, grabbed and misled you from the real path telling you that they were The Divine Ones.

I could illustrate this but may be some other time. One of the big problems with the primitive human mind we all have, is that it is too easily influenced by "phemonenalism". Just become something is fantastic, wonderful and beyond our ken, we think it therefore has to be true. Very New Agey. Probably a bit of an embarrassing anachronism now within BK circles what with all those business executives and politicians on the go.

I think Jannisder is also quite right, there is alot of peer pressure to conform by having experiences and interpretating mundane things with "Baba's touching ..."

"Come sit on the Guddi and share your experience ..." do they still do that to students?

Give me a child, and i make it in whatever i want

it is a quote from some psychological school ... i really have to get (back) into that.

Meaning that intoxication of the brain can turn any human, and even animal, into what i want. Breaking a horse is to make its own thinking dead so i can master it. The horse is strong an can even kill me but by breaking it, it will think it can not survive without me. I become its leader.

Same with people.

Breaking a horse is to make its own thinking dead so I can master it.

To add to your points, you can also train a horse without 'breaking' it. And raise children without 'breaking' their will, c.f. Alice Miller, Drama of the Gifted Child.

YES!!

Then they turn out to be free spirited creative individuals.

Dear br. ex-l

Yes, points of light are no doubt different. It is just that they look like they are same when you look at. Just a point of light. They are different, because they have different roles. These roles are played when the soul adopts a body.

The abstract conception of God, also has no proofs, but it is just a human creation. Some just teach like this. It is called spreading ignorance. It is indeed so abstract idea of him that if you ask someone he cannot say anything about him. He is so abstract that they don't have any kind of idea, cannot even think of him and this is considered his glory, that we cannot know him. Due to this fear of thinking about him where one loses his mind or attributing him characteristics as one pleases, we have lost The Knowledge of his identity, role and connection with him, so our grief has grown.

Dear Brother neo,

Yes, souls attract one another due to some logic. Britney Spears fans like Britney Spears. Like or love is only called Yoga, but through our intellectual understanding we may judge what we can have, obtain from Britney spears, because one also likes or loves or his mind goes there where he understands there is benefit for him. It is said that we become whatever we think about. The Britney Spears fans think of her, start acting, behaving, dress like her, copy her.

Why do we search for God with our mind? What do we like from him? Why do we like to become like him? Maybe it is this sweet envy that everyone has for the one god for his stage that we also like to have, to become. But also not all sous are looking for god and are not happy with him. Like the fans that go to concert and their hearts are fulfilled for a while. However, it is also said that it is a place, the only place and the only shop where the soul can gain for a long time, even for eternity.

Such place where people may come if they are not content anywhere else, like an asylum, like some place for eternal benefit when one has become tired of momentary things and like some very basic need be fulfilled that the mind can stop running here and there chasing after people that has caused its tiredness; chasing after money, property, success, that it likes to find one place, one destination to rest. If this benefit could be given by pop stars then their influence will be much more.

The greatest star is God, eveyone knows him in some form, has him as his most close and intimate one. Such soul that can belong to anyone and you can belong. Finally it is matter of belonging, of getting back where we were, of going back home. These can be just ideas, conception, only to provoke certain similar feelings in each one like feeling of eternety, of belongin, of going home.

And many feel reluctant to speak about God, knowledge Yoga as it is some sacret relationship, some personal experience. If we are tired of even this searching then, maybe, it is said that one has to fulfill his Bhakti first and then receive knowledge. So search for benefit from human beings, matter exists till we get overdose and start feeling distate, detachment and this can finish and the mind can realise what, where is it striving for indeed.

Yes, points of light are no doubt different. It is just that they look like they are same when you look at. Just a point of light. They are different, because they have different roles. These roles are played when the soul adopts a body.

This is just dry, empty theory andrey. It does not make sense. Its a sort of tautological argument that works well to the logic of a simple person or someone loved up on Gyan but does not stand the light of reason.

You cant see the point of light that may be the soul (and that is also a Murli point!). So how does "look" coming into the equation? How do you know that? Have you ever seen? SO how do you know? How does anyone know is no one has seen?

What of "sense" and "feel". Is the soul not sentient? Does the soul not feel and express its qualities? And, yes, this sensing and feeling happens outside of the physical body and unlimited by space if not time. Our "aura" surrounds and preceeds us. Others sense and feel it.

Why do we search for God, with our mind, what do we like from him, why do we like to become like him.

Because we are socially conditioned to do so by a few thousand years of "God Industries". Industries which were built by humans on the basis of theories to explain unknown phenomenon.

Atheists, humanists, tribal people are born, grow up and become well balanced and no more or less virtuous than "God botherers" as far as I can see. And they do not demand other surrender their lives to them. Far, far more of them than BK-type Gyani souls ... look at the conduct of some "Godly" souls around this forum!

I mean if we call soul a point of light, without a body, it cannot work. souls can understand what soul is when it is in the body and mind works. There are no proofs a soul without a body can live or experience anything. The out-of body experiencess have all happened to souls who have bodies. So to call God a point of light, this can be his form, but even he cannot work without a body. It is said in the Murli i definetely need a body in which to enter etc.

Existing of atheism is not a proof God does not exist. If God and religion is man made industry then what is the purpose of our life. Why religion preaches good behaviour. so that people in the name of good behaviour can do their bad business? There is power in religion and God, becasue it deals with nonmaterial objects, ideas, philosophies, moral, valuse, laws and these are that create the wordl. World is first created with ideas. (thoughts of Brahma (The Knowledge the Supreme Soul has narrated))

Would you say effort of philosophers is in vain and bhagats do bakti in vain. Indeed they cannot find God that way, but definetely their striving will be rewarded, should be rewarded, no doubt.

It is only such peole like you that go to them and say "leave all of that, there is no use, they just mislead you, look here, now, lets make something practical. Lets build a chirch or collect money from people in the name of the Lord, this is better, money smell and lord cannot smell, he cannot even punish, this is just a theory they have created to control you. Now come and listen to me and everything will be fine. You'll feel happy and gay." And peole leave that but don't find the sense of purpose again. thats why it is said that salvation is in one incorporeal true guru and in human beings there is downfall. God creates heaven out of hell for us with his acts and human beings crete hell out of heaven with their acts. This is why we turn to him, because we are not capable and we know it in some way.

I mean if we call soul a point of light, without a body, it cannot work. souls can understand what soul is when it is in the body and mind works. There are no proofs a soul without a body can live or experience anything. The out-of body experiencess have all happened to souls who have bodies. So to call God a point of light, this can be his form, but even he cannot work without a body. It is said in the Murli I definetely need a body in which to enter etc.

Yet is the Soul ever without a body throughout The Cycle, except in Paramdham?
Yes it may not be a physical body, but still the soul is able to function always because it will be in one kind of body or another.
So that in some ways is a mute point, only used for explanation.
It is said Shiva does not always stay in the Chariot, well he must be in some other type of body to function if this idea is to hold together, unless ShivaBaba can function without a body

Has anyone within the Yagya ever successfully explained how the soul interacts with the body.

It is only such peole like you

I have to apologise for such way. dear Brother, please, it is only when one loses himself in speaking like priest that he also starts hurting others. Please, forgive me.