Official Contact with Sister Jayanti BKWSU (UK) - legal

These are interesting times! I think Admin's questions were reasonable and fair.

I also think that it is an unfair burden to put on 1 or 2 individuals to expect them to represent the whole forum; and it is unfair to the rest of the forum; who may not feel like the nominated representatives represent their views.

Obviously I understand the reasons for Jayanti bhen not to want to have an open dialogue on this forum; because then she would have to be on the stage in front of the whole world answering difficult questions which are in an unerasable format. She would have to be open, honest and not have fear of peoples opinions. Obviously this runs contrary to current BK organisational process which prefers to have meetings behind closed doors, secrecy and decisions being made about individuals without consulting them (contrary to any basic organisational policy in business or govt sectors) etc.

Whilst I think dialogue is a good thing.. should it be dialogue at any expense? at the price of self respect and fairness to all members? I think a joint letter of issues from all of us on email which is responded to, and which we are able to post here would be OK, but for for a few members to represent the whole forum is unreasonable and doesnt fit the kind of ethical (if you can call it that) stance which I felt this forum represented.

I also think that it is an unfair burden to put on 1 or 2 individuals to expect them to represent the whole forum; and it is unfair to the rest of the forum who may not feel like the nominated representatives represent their views.

I agree entirely. In a sense, albeit unconsciously, they are trying to create us here in their likeness. An elite dealing with another elite. I suppose if you think you are going to be a god, it is an understandable mistake to make. Who speak for the common man or woman in the BKWSU about how they collectively are projected by the in crowd?

Jayanti, like all the senior Sisters, has willing minions and super-keen IT boys, to carry out her every wish. I'd much prefer to deal with a nice, neutral, innocent administrator like this Alka and see no reason why they cannot relay questions and answers back and forward. Printing them out for her to read, as they do.

I think readers here, and the general public, have every right to an "official response" and a channel of communication for verification of facts and so on. It will be their undoing if they don't. Even during World Wars the two sides keep "diplomatic channels" open. Really what we need is a open and diplomatic "medium".

No, second thoughts, it is unfair on a junior BK to be used in this manner. There are a few BKs at such a senior level that ought to be able to realise the seriousness of all this and answer. But if JB is being lined up for a top dog job after Janki pops it, and is going to continue on milking the myths and revisions, should she be allowed to escape the responsibility of facing personal inspection?

....But if JB is being lined up for a top dog job after Janki pops it, and is going to continue on milking the myths and revisions, should she be allowed to escape the responsibility of facing personal inspection?

No.

P.S. It's a pity to elongate this post but i could not help but notice that ex-l used 2 words that all BK's hold dear in their philosophy: "facing" as in the power to FACE; and the much vaunted "responsibility". Surely these are 2 ideas that represent familiar territory to all BKs from SJ right down.

You said it all

ex- L: they are trying to create us here in their likeness. An elite dealing with another elite.

Yudeshthira: Obviously I understand the reasons for Jayanti bhen not to want to have an open dialogue on this forum; because then she would have to be on the stage in front of the whole world answering difficult questions which are in an unerasable format She would have to be open, honest and not have fear of peoples opinions. Obviously this runs contrary to current BK organisational process which prefers to have meetings behind closed doors, secrecy and decisions being made about individuals without consulting them (contrary to any basic organisational policy in business or govt sectors) etc.

Can any BK or Ex such on earth sincerely declare that he ever had a dialogue with Seniors? And I mean sincere and I mean dialogue. So, if these 2 words are not understood 100% correctly, no need to answer. What we've come across with SS, has always and only been indoctrination and impositions. That's how it works. And do not forget that, apart from persuading someone or pulling his/her ears behind closed doors, Jayanti's speciality is pouring torrents of water on audiences, she is a conference speaker, not a listener. As far as question and answer sessions go, the another major, if not the only one skill she and the like have; dodging and manipulation of truth, and making others feel lower, ignorant and dumb.

The Yagya is like colonialists and super powers, who try to "buy" and manipulate political leaders in some African condemned to underdevelopment country or Central America banana republic by putting a puppet dictator or "President" of their choice in power to protect the foreigners' interest and carry out their usual business at the expenses of the people, with rivers of blood flowing, famine and massive exodus resulting.

Unfortunately, the Admin of this site, I do not think is interested in fattening its bank acct in Switzerland, neither the web can ever be totally controlled. Freedom of opinion will prevail, and the type of non violent arms we are using cannot be surrendered. N.1 is our intellects. We've all been like children soldiers kidnapped and brainwashed. Now we escaped, so, expect the worse: it's time for redemption.

So, Jayantibhen and associates, this is my Satguruwar toli for you, not cooked by impure hands, you can have it without risking contamination.

Bob Marley & The Wailers - Redemption Song

Old pirates, yes, they rob I;
Sold I to the merchant ships,
Minutes after they took I
From the bottomless pit.
But my 'and was made strong
By the 'and of the Almighty.
We forward in this generation
Triumphantly.
Won't you help to sing
Another song of freedom? -
'Cause all I ever have:
Redemption songs;
Redemption songs.

Emancipate yourself from mental slavery;
None but ourself can free our minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the time.
How long shall they kill our prophets,
While we stand aside and look?
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fulfil de book.

Won't you help to sing
Another song of freedom? -
'Cause all I ever have:
Redemption songs;
Redemption songs;
Redemption songs.

Sing wi' me, children:
In every way, now;
In everyday.

I also think that there is an underlying basic assumption here; that by wanting to speak to a few, a few are "controlling" the forum. Is this true? Is the forum really being manipulated by a few folk who just want to smear the BKs in order to create more recruits for the Shankar party? From my observations; I would say "no" to that. Although some members spend more time here than others; everyone is free to speak their mind as long as it doesnt insult another. There is a tendancy to accept without question any negative view point about the BKs without always fully researching it, but I guess that goes with the territory. I think here we have a semi-anarchic combination of people from entirely different viewpoints joined by having some experience of the BKs..

By that token, it is therefore impossible to have a "representative" for the forum, as it is a non hierarchical structure without a corporate view; despite the fact that many of its members have had negative experience of the BK organisation, we are all different in how we have responded to that.

Are we posting our questions here or on the other thread now?

Are we posting our questions here or on the other thread now?

Where ever you like ... I think we should start focus on specifics and take general bitching elsewhere. They have had good enough free product feedback from our marketing team focus group and there is another one on Jayanti here.

I have stated mine above regarding history and Murlis etc.

To that I would like to add that there ought to be an open channel where we can ask specifics question and receive specific answers, which we will document for critical analysis, without having to deal with any BS. And that would include questions to other leaders and RCOs such as Janki. Obviously it will require discipline on our side not to waste their time but I should imagine more and more BK voices will come this way if it is the only anonymous but documented channel of such questions.

Even if they refuse these questions and requests this time, they are still something we can work towards through other methods. A public display of our intent (for now and the Copper and Iron Age too ...) .

[admin]

An official response was received from the BKWSU. It refers to a number of emails that we also received prior to it that identified the group of BKs behind this approach and illustrated their way of thinking.

Sister Jayanti goes on to state that she has no issues she wants to raise.

12 Aug 2007

Dear Friend,

I believe that you may have been copied in on some internal email exchanges during our drafting process in response to your email. I apologise for any mutual embarrassment that this may have caused.

My offer of a personal meeting was with the belief that it would help to improve relationships. Beyond this, I do not have an agenda of issues I wish to raise.

Your website contains a variety of viewpoints, all deeply felt, and some of them constructive, whereas others are not conducive to further discussion. In these circumstances I do not wish to enter into correspondence on a web site forum.

Our organisation is constantly changing in response to changing needs and times. I would be happy to meet you, or a group, to explain more about our perspectives and current approaches, and in the hope of improving mutual understanding.

As stated in my previous communication, I do not wish to correspond with persons who remain anonymous and so I hope this may now change; otherwise I will not be able to respond to further communications.

BK Jayanti

An official response was received from the BKWSU. It refers to a number of emails that we also received prior to it that identified the group of BKs behind this approach and illustrated their way of thinking. Sister Jayanti goes on to state that she has no issues she wants to raise.

Thanks for keeping us updated. Just BK Preconditions and Powerplays, is not it?

Had these prior email exchanges been posted on here? And who is the group of BKs behind this approach?

I am certainly not sure what

Our organisation is constantly changing in response to changing needs and times.

means! Does that mean it's OK to drop our basic values in order to get exposure and funding at any cost!!

I can kind of understand her not feeling happy with posting as herself when everyone else is anonymous; however, she needs to take responsibity for the fact that she herself is partially responsible for sustaining the fear based approach which leads many posting on here to want to remain anonymous for fear of being further caught up in the vicious cycle of rumour passing and general judgement passing that the current system has been sustaining!

I would love to be totally open with you Sister, but I know that you have your own fixed opinions, and i do not want to go through the wringer of your sitting in judgement on me again. Souls are souls. Do you need to give them a name to respect their opinions? We would all benefit so much from you posting openly on here and showing that BK business doesnt always have to be done in the dark. A personal meeting would only be with a few; but the forum is made of many, all with their own opinions! Would an open exchange of emails not be a solution to this?

This is difficult, because I see her looking drained and sucked dry because she is trying to do it all herself; not letting Baba, and I know she thinks she is doing the best thing for the Yagya.

Souls are souls. Do you need to give them a name to respect their opinions? We would all benefit so much from you posting openly on here and showing that BK business doesnt always have to be done in the dark

Beautiful stuff, yude.

Its an embarrassment that we have to remind her of the basics. A name is only a name of the body, not of the soul. Where is their attention? It also upsets me that they want to target, empower or hold responsible one or two individuals when that ignores both the objective spiritual issues being raised here and the contributions of so many.

• If she has no agenda, perhaps we should put to her the issues we wish to raise now?

Speaking personally, where an individual has put themself up for and plays the 'name game', taking advantage of pulbic position; then that individual has to accept the flipside of that coin as well. There is Jayanti, the Public Face of the BKWSU and there is Jayanti, the Private Individual. Jayanti, the Private Individual is perfectly welcome to join and post in anonymity, as they read in anonymity. I am sure she will gain a lot from this forum.

In a sense, we are not really addressing Jayanti but the Public Face of the BKWSU ... in public. Why should the BKWSU enjoy the benefits of public position without being willing to face the consquequences of their actions also in public? Sadly, I know many agree with your experience of standing up or even questioning her authority, Yude ... I wonder if Suman reads or posts on this forum?

If I draw out one other thing, I notice the emphasis of the word "mutual" in both emails but I cant for the life of me see what the benefit is for anyone on this forum. Is she saying that her terms are that we have to kiss ass over tiffin if we want the Murlis and the true history of the organization? Hell, we are not even getting an invitation to the Palladian Mansion.

We were told earlier by God those (excluding the Palladian Mansion) were our birthright.

Oh would some Power the gift give us
To see ourselves as others see us!
It would from many a blunder free us,
And foolish notion:
What airs in dress and gait* would leave us,
And even devotion!

* the way we carrying ourselves in public (Translation by an ex-BKWSU follower)

It also upsets me that they want to target, empower or hold responsibile one or two individuals when that ignores both the objective spiritual issues being raised here and the contributions of so many. Is she has no agenda, perhaps we should put to her the issues we wish to raise now?

Thanks for that ex-l; and yes, I agree. It is the whole approach which is disempowering. But see how closely that approach mirrors the BK model!

They assume that a few are a responsible for the views of the majority. In the BKs, that may be true; that Dadis and Seniors influence many souls, especially those who go to them for Shrimat.

Here, however, each soul is coming from their own perspective. My views are not influenced by any other members. Sometimes, they are diametrically opposed to them. I would be not be represented at a meeting where other souls who see themselves as ex-BKs or PBKs were the only representatives.

I don't really see the point for me as the historical research; I do not really care what Brahma's birthday is and I trust Baba to make sure I get what I need from the Murlis available to me. I AM concerned about the way the BKs treat people, the corruption that they are getting involved in, particularly with getting souls to mortgage off their houses, not looking after their sick and elderly unless they've given loads of money, and the way that lies and rumours are passed around about souls that the Seniors are afraid of.

I think it would be interesting to email a list of our questions in direct response, and see what the reply is.

Celebration!! We got rid of her?

Fear based approach and system, we know very well of. Maybe this is why forum posters view points are " deeplyfelt", as deep as the burns we accumulated from the BK sect. So, healing requires deep care and this generated deep insights.

Different from high ranks, most labour BKs are genuine and not a bunch of hypocrites! What Yudhishtira also quoted about the "organization constantly changing in response to changing needs and times" is the best and most telling part of that mail, to me. So, the conservative absolutist organisation is painting itself as flexible, capable of modernizing itself, justifying its chamaleontic skills?

Too bad any change has never been discussed collectively, nor teachers and students have ever been informed officialy of any new tendencies or policies. Everything done under the table or behind closed doors by hi ranks, and imposed without consulting the hundred of thousands volunteers they use and abuse. We all sniffed changes and wondered " what the hell is going on? Priorities and systems are changing? What for? Usually for $!

They do not mention God much, Yoga becomes a secondary aspect. All energy is focussed on capturing VIP's attention and funds. Gyan is revised. It is not cool to mention Destruction and other topics. Principles; you should not inform new wealthy students about too soon, or else they will escape from the net; anyone can go to Madhuban, etc etc ..."

She speaks of "Improving relationship and mutual underdstanding", concluding that "I do not wish to correspond with persons who remain anonymous and so I hope this may now change; otherwise I will not be able to respond to further communications."

She got rid of her beard, few years ago because it was disserviceable, however, she shows the typical patriarchal Kaliyugi sanksars of "take it or leave it, I dictate the conditions!"

... however, she shows the typical patriarchal Kaliyugi sanksars of " take it or leave it, I dictate the conditions!"

Yes, alladin. That is exactly what i picked up. Jayanti, aka "His Master's Western Voice", has spoken. Take it or leave it. That's why i was watching on quite interestedly while the whole meeting scenario was being played out. Actually, if i say so myself, I rather like the: "His Master's Western Voice" oblox for SisJ.

Maybe it will catch on if i abbreviate it to HUMV (humvee) which usually refers to a High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle but in this case I would also be able to re-phrase it as High Mobility Multipurpose Westernised Voice of the BKWSU aka HUMV nonetheless.

Imagine if at the next international meeting all the co-ordinators found it impossible to remove the image of a white multi-purpose milirtary vehicle (HUMV) bulldozing its way over all before it as Jayanti conducted meditation or gave classes. HUMV speaks:

Your website contains a variety of viewpoints, all deeply felt, and some of them constructive, whereas others are not conducive to further discussion. In these circumstances I do not wish to enter into correspondence on a web site forum.

P.S. I must be losing my mind.

So, the Stepford Wives have started to comunicate?

Since they have only said 'hello', I will do the same. I will joke around for the time being and may post something if there is anything to work to.

Chop parts from the flute (of knowledge) and all you will get is hot air.

Anyway, welcome Sister Jayanti, I presume you represent yourself, like the rest of us, otherwise you would use an official BK label. The way I see it, you're no more a representative of God than any of us. There are a number of us who are responsible for what is on this forum, as in, all. We stand together, which is more than can be said for the atmosphere within BKWSU. Self-importance will be an obstacle in any communication. The first obstacle is "us and "them".

Sister Jayanti, I look forward to reading your posts, as an individual opinion, as that is who you are.

Imagine if at the next international meeting all the co-ordinators found it impossible to remove the image of a white multi-purpose milirtary vehicle (HUMV) bulldozing its way over all before it as Jayanti conducted meditation or gave classes. HUMV speaks:

For anyone that does not know what a Humvee is, it is probably the only vehicle that could cut through New Delhi traffic at 45 MPH ... without slowing down. But seriously folks, give her a chance to speak either personally or "officially". We need an official response.