Brahma Kumaris Info - the Truth about BK Meditation

ex-l wrote:That is really not an answer. It may be Veerendra Dev Dixit or Shiva Baba's reply - and reminded back to soul-conscious instead of biology consciousness - but, especially in the light of the peacock myth, it is not an answer. It would be better that Shiva Baba just says, "I don't know, I was not there" and Brahma Baba/Veerendra Dev Dixit says, " I don't know". Students should be aware that there is a difference between a reply and an answer.

Dear Brother ex-l.

You have most appropraitely expressed the difference between a ''reply and an answer''.
That is what i have been trying to stress all along, that all the queries put forward by PBKs to Baba are just replies by Krishna's soul and not answers by the supreme authority ShivBaba. If they were accurate answers from ShivBaba, then the need for further doubts would not arise in the minds of PBKs; i have seen Baba giving different replies to different PBKs (to the same question) as per the intellect of the individual PBK and when asked about the same He had categorically replied that the doctor cannot give the same medicine to all the patients; He has to feel the pulse of the patient and give the dose accordingly.

So the inference is that it is Krishna's soul who is giving the replies and not ShivBaba; as during the shooting period the part of Ramshivbaba has still not started as Bap-teacher-satguru.

shivsena.

Is there any other logical explanation for Krishna being adorned with mor-pankh??

Yes, all the stories from the path of Bhakti are remembereance of the Confluence Age, so which soul plays the part of Shyam Sundar Krishna of the Confluence Age. Who is this Krishna that has 16000 wifes?

If peacock and peahen remain ever-pure for 5000 years and reproduce asexually, then why cannot humans do the same for 5000 years (as we all know that humans are superior to birds) ;

But human beings today, how do they reproduce? We cannot deny the reality. If this is the condition now is it possible that it changes any time in the future so that they reproduce purely for 5000 years?

Shivsena wrote:Also if mor-pankh is a sign of purity then it should have been associated with Shankar who is the only devta who never becomes patit-impure (Murli point- ''Shankar kabhi patit nahin banta''); why should mor-pankh be associated with only Krishna who supposedly remains pure for 2500 years and then becomes impure for 2500 years (no. 1 pure and no. 1 impure); That is my dillemma??

I agree with Andrey Bhai that the Krishna who is depicted with a peacock feather is not the Golden Aged Krishna but the Confluence-Aged Krishna, because the Golden Aged Krishna neither becomes completely pure nor completely sinful. He does not even play an allround part like the Confluence-Aged Krishna and leaves his body much earlier than most of the Brahmin souls.

If peacock and peahen remain ever-pure for 5000 years and reproduce asexually, then why cannot humans do the same for 5000 years (as we all know that humans are superior to birds)

Although we do not have the accurate scientific proofs of the asexual reproduction by peacock and peahen, as some members have pointed out, at the same time, even if we think that the peacock and peahen reproduce asexually, how can they be called greater than human beings? There are many other species of animals which produce asexually. There are some animals in which the male and female reproductive organs in the same body. Will you call those animals greater than peacock and human beings? Although they may be reproducing asexually they may still be body conscious. The power to think and churn is 'generally' vested only with the human souls. There may be exceptional incidents where the animals have behaved very intelligently.

Baba has just given an example to give hints about the method of reproduction in heaven which supposedly does not involve the use of sex-organs. But the non-use of sexual organs is not the only indication of purity. The words, thoughts, vision and vibrations of the deities are also pure. This level of purity cannot be expected from the animals which may be reproducing asexually even at the end of the Iron Age.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Shivsena wrote:You have most appropraitely expressed the difference between a ''reply and an answer''.
That is what I have been trying to stress all along, that all the queries put forward by PBKs to Baba are just replies by Krishna's soul and not answers by the supreme authority ShivBaba.

Omshanti. Yes, Brother ex-l is right in pointing out the difference between a reply and an answer. You might have observed that many of the replies given by Baba are in the form of questions. Actually, such replies might have been His reactions on the views expressed by some PBKs which might not have been in line with the Godly knowledge or might have been in response to such questions which were asked with an intention to test/embarass Him. Many may consider such responses from Baba to be incomplete, but many PBKs who understand the subtle language of Baba, are able to grasp the answer that lies within the reply in question form.

And unlike Shivsena Bhai's views, I don't believe that all the responses received from Baba are given by the soul of Krishna. Many of the responses given by Baba are clear answers, which definitely cannot be attributed to the soul of Krishna.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Shivsena wrote:I have not at all understood this concept of procreation in Satyug by oral means, nor through Yoga power as it has been taught in BKs. What I need to know is, first of all, if there is no Supreme Soul Shiva in Golden Age and Silver Age, then whom do we receive the power to procreate from? This is because the soul starts loosing its power of Yoga right from first day of Golden Age, once the Confluence Age ends and Supreme Soul Shiva goes to Paramdham.

Omshanti. While going through one of the clarification Murlis transcripts I found the answer to the question raised by Shivsena Bhai at the beginning of this thread. I hope you would find it convincing.

" So, there in the Golden Age, there is no question of vices. There it is your power of Yoga. What? With whom do you establish Yoga (i.e. connection) there? With whom will you establish Yoga there in the Golden Age? With whom do you establish Yoga there? (Pushpa mata – The power of remembrance accumulated in the Confluence Age would exist there). No. On the basis of the power of remembrance (of the Confluence Age), you get such a companion there for 21 births, who makes equal efforts as us. That is all, the intellect remains focussed on him/her for 21 births. So, when the intellect is focussed in ‘one’ continuously, will it accrue sinful actions (paap karma) or noble actions (punya karma)? There is no question of accrual of sinful actions because the remembrance is unadulterated. Radha would exchange glances only with Krishna and Krishna would exchange glances only with Radha. The organs would not get attracted to anyone else at all. So no sinful actions would accrue. There would not be any adultery (vyabhichaar) at all. There is no question of vices (vikaar) there. It means that there would not be any opposite actions because only ‘one’ is present in the intellect. This is the glory (prataap) of avyabhichaar (purity/unadulterated relationship). So, there is a power of Yoga there and in the Iron Aged world there is a power of Bhog (i.e. worldly/sensual pleasures). " (Ref. No.VCD*.)
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Arjun wrote:Many may consider such responses from Baba to be incomplete, but many PBKs who understand the subtle language of Baba, are able to grasp the answer that lies within the reply in question form.

Then those fortunate souls should be able to answer any queries.

Arjun which ever way you like to put it some of the answers are just plain vague. If you know PBKs who can clarify, then maybe you would be good enough to pass the questions to them for further clarification.

Do you consider that it is always Shiva God Father who answers all questions through the Chariot of Virendra Dev Dixit?

Exams are taken by the Teacher. The soul of Krishna is not the teacher, he is the student, he is not the one to take exams. Exams is taken by the one Supreme Soul who plays the part of Father - Teacher and Satguru. We would not receive salvation or inheritance by anyone else.

Dear Shivsena Bhai and John Bhai,
Omshanti. In response to your above posts I wish to say that we are not accepting everthing that emerges from the mouth of Baba blindly nor do I advise anyone on this forum to do so. The PBK Section is not to force the PBK view / Advanced Knowledge upon anyone. The fact that the maximum discussion is taking place in this Section of the forum itself is a proof that nobody is/wishes to accept anything blindly.

If you have seen any of the discussion cds (especially the recent ones), you will find that many PBKs quote the clarification Murlis/ discussion cds and try to ask further questions based on them or even try to cross-examine Baba. Baba Baba has tried to answer all the querries. I have already said that some may find the answers to be convincing and some may not. But in spite of knowing that many PBKs might not be accepting his answers completely, Baba still takes their questions and answers them. Everyone knows that Shivsena Bhai's views are generally not in line with the conventional PBK view since many years. But in spite of knowing that, Baba personally discussed The Knowledge with Shivsena Bhai and that too on camera, which has been recorded in two or three cds. This only proves that Baba does not want anyone to accept his views blindly. In stark comparison, the official BKs do not want to discuss The Knowledge even on a secure forum like the internet where the identity need not be revealed.

As regards who is answering the questions, I wish to say that as per the Sakar Murlis, even if it appears that the soul of Brahma is answering/narrating, we should think that it is Father Shiv who is speaking. I will try to quote the Murli point if possible.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Arjun wrote:

The PBK Section is not to force the PBK view / Advanced Knowledge upon anyone. The fact that the maximum discussion is taking place in this Section of the forum itself is a proof that nobody is/wishes to accept anything blindly.

Yes good point ArjunBhai.
I think as much as possible total awareness is better than blind acceptance.

I do see the dilemna for Baba as to who is answering questions, because If it was said sometimes this soul answers sometimes that soul, then everyone will be picking it all to bits and saying 'no, this is Shiva, no this is Brahma no this bit is Ram soul talking'.

Shivsena wrote:and it requires a lot of churning and co-relation of other Murli points to challenge the replies of Krishna's soul in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit(as Supreme Soul Shiva cannot be challenged at all);

Dear Brother,
Based on your above statement I wish to once again know that as per your belief who narrated the Sakar Murlis that were narrated through the medium of Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj)? In response to my earlier querry in this/other thread, you had stated 'same as yours' but did not clearly take any name. I request you to kindly state clearly, whether it was Father Shiv who narrated the Sakar Murli or was it the soul of Krishna, i.e. Dada Lekhraj? And if it was Dada Lekhraj who narrated the Sakar Murlis from 1951 to Jan,1969, then where was the incorporeal Father Shiv during that period? Was He in the body of Dada Lekhraj most of the time or was He in the Soul World or was He in the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit?
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

arjun wrote:

Shivsena wrote:and it requires a lot of churning and co-relation of other Murli points to challenge the replies of Krishna's soul in the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit(as Supreme Soul Shiva cannot be challenged at all);

Dear Brother,
Based on your above statement I wish to once again know that as per your belief who narrated the Sakar Murlis that were narrated through the medium of Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj)? In response to my earlier querry in this/other thread, you had stated 'same as yours' but did not clearly take any name. I request you to kindly state clearly, whether it was Father Shiv who narrated the Sakar Murli or was it the soul of Krishna, i.e. Dada Lekhraj? And if it was Dada Lekhraj who narrated the Sakar Murlis from 1951 to Jan,1969, then where was the incorporeal Father Shiv during that period? Was He in the body of Dada Lekhraj most of the time or was He in the Soul World or was He in the body of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit?
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Dear arjun Bhai.

I do not understand why you are repeating the same queries again and again when i have written clearly that i have no doubts about the entry of shivbindi in Lekhraj Kirpalani or Virendra Dev Dixit; my only argument is that Shivbap's Murli through Lekhraj Kirpalani were in code form and the first one to break the code was Ram's soul who came to know his part as living ShivBaba through' a thorough study of Murli points and then proceeded to become 100% incorporeal stage and gave his body to Krishna who is now the owner of the body of Virendra Dev Dixit; since Rambap is going to be revealed as Rudrashivbaba in the end and 108 souls of rudramala are also going to be numberwise nirakari stage like Rambap then i feel that they will also recognise their part by intense study of Murli points(and not just by listening to cds) as they are also all Gyani souls. Hence i am studying and researching the Murli points and presenting my views about the same; also i feel that since Krishna is never a part of rudramala(Gyani atma) so the 108 souls of rudramala will be more powerful than Krishna in regards to churning and interpreting the Murli points(and i have the Murli point to prove the same)

shivsena

Dear Shivsena Bhai,
Omshanti. You have mentioned that the qualification for Father Shiv's versions is that it should not be challenged. But at the same time you say that the Sakar Murlis narrated through the mouth of Dada Lekhraj were narrated by Father Shiv. You and all of us know that the Advance Party began mainly because Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and subsequently all the PBKs including you challenged the BK interpretation of the versions of Father Shiv spoken through Dada Lekhraj.

So, as per your views, the versions spoken through Dada Lekhraj also should not be Godly versions. When Dada Lekhraj (the soul of Krishna) could not understand the versions of Shiva spoken through his own body, then how can he give clarifications of the same Godly versions from 1976 till date??????????

Do you mean to say that Child Krishna has overpowered both Father Shiv and Prajapita??????

And if you say that child Krishna is not giving correct clarifications then all the Advanced Knowledge narrated from 1976 till date should be wrong. Did you become a PBK based on false knowledge?

When you entered this path of kowledge did you believe it to be Father Shiv's versions or child Krishna's versions?????

What is the use of entry of Father Shiv into the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit if He has not uttered a single word through his body and given all the responsibility to his creation, i.e. child Krishna? This is same as calling the child Krishna as the God of Gita, is not it? Baba says it is a sin to call child Krishna the husband of Mother Gita, does'nt He?

BKs say that God Shiv has gone back to the Soul World since 1969 and you say that although God Shiv is in Ram's body He has not uttered a single word. It is as good as not being here. Then what is the difference between your view and the BK viewpoint?

Kindly clarify. Please do not take my questions otherwise. I am just not able to understand your philosophy, which is against the basic principles of the Advanced Knowledge on the basis of which I and you became PBKs.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun