Sex, Sexuality and Relationships within the BKWSU or PBKs

All the damage we received and inflicted during Kaliyugi births using wrongly the "sword of lust", how is it going to be healed? And has it always been a sword? Any time, when it was a silken sheet or a more fullfilling encounter, like a merging of auras?

"Repair" just through soul-consciousness? Is it not often a short cut or a pretense? Or some good good loving, like Bob Marley said, can help in rewinding the reel back to total soul-conscious exchanges? Passing through the stages or reconciling, re-unifying and purifying all energies, love, sex included??

Baba says that he wants our dirty laundry to wash it and return it to us clean. Could it be that RajaYoga was a cleansing process that enabled us to purify our thoughts, understand newer, more balanced ways to love and this lead to healthier and more elevated relationships that may encompass sex?

Maybe in this phase of my life I am presented with the opportunity to exchange my Golden Age princess status for that "good, good loving" and become what? A Buddhist monk? Or a model for a Khajuraho temple? Not a bad deal, it feels! And Raja Yoga: thanks for the preparation!!

Love to all. Supnaka

Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says that the organs of the body will surely do their work. That means there is no need to forcibly try to control the body like a hatha yogi. Maybe this includes emotions etc. What we have to do is just to instill an idea in the mind that we are Brothers, or Brothers and Sisters, but even in the relationship of Brothers and Sisters lustful vision can come. Then the body follows automatically, emotions of brotherhood come.

What we have to do is just to instill an idea in the mind that we are Brothers, or Brothers and Sisters

Forcibly?

but even in the relationship of Brothers and Sisters lustful vision can come.

Incest, i think?

Then the body follows automatically, emotions of brotherhood come.

Sounds a very speculative theory. Maybe you can explain further on how loving sexual relationship between consenting individuals is undesirable and can be eliminated if we:

"instill an idea in the mind that we are Brothers, or Brothers and Sisters, but even in the relationship of Brothers and Sisters lustfull vision can come. Then the body follows automatically, emotions of brotherhood come.

Does the idea need to be 'instilled' because it is alien to 'majority' human experiences and thought processes? Shouldn't soul consciousness and they dynamics of human relationships work together hand-in-hand for the creation of a better world? Alladin offered the following to think about:

All the damage we received and inflicted during Kaliyugi births using wrongly the "sword of lust", how is it going to be healed? ... "Repair" just through soul-consciousness? Is it not often a short cut or a pretense? Or some good good loving, like Bob Marley said, can help in rewinding the reel back to total soul-conscious exchanges? Passing through the stages or re-conciling, re-unifying and purifying all energies, love, sex included??

Yes, we look at ourselves as bodies and others as bodies and desire comes. Before the BK era, it used to be considered that the woman is the gateway to hell, she provokes desire in men. That's why they ran into the forest. Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says that men are weak and they cannot control themselves, that's why they run and blame. When he comes he says that if women are the gateway to hell, are man the gateway to heaven? He says that women are the gateway to heaven, she can follow purity. Man cannot follow purity. Woman can teach man, because she can control herself better.

Then in BK it is believed that both man and woman can live together and not have desire, if they accept one another as Brother and Sister. Like in the normal familly, normally Brother and Sister do not have desire for one another. They eat together, sleep together, live together and they don't have desire for one another. Not forcibly, that's why knowledge is needed that both should follow. If one looks the soul and the other looks the body there will not be success.

Then in the Advanced Knowledge it is said that even in the contact of the organs one can remain pure, because it is the mind that is influenced and not the organs of the body. They are like media to transmit information. They are non-living. Their desire cannot finish because it is not their desire but the desire of the soul inside, which we have to transform. It is not to say one should go and do, one has to practice purity of the body too. Each one can judge himself how far he is uninfluenced. If we go and do how will it help us in our practice.

Yes, i believe that a boy and a girl do not have anything to talk about or look one another for. If they do, then thoughts arise.

There was also mention somewhere about women's liberation. I suppose this women's liberation was not created by women. Some man should have corrupted her to demand liberation so that he can fulfill his desire.

Thank you Andrey.

Thanks Andreybhai for your deep insight.

Before 2-3 months I came into contact with an ex-BK Sister who has deep love for ShivBaba & Godly knowledge & wants to be celibate even after 6 months of married life. But her husband demands sex. This leads to dispute between them & their marital life is on way to divorce. My Brother Andreybhai, if you were that Sister, what should you do?

Thanks Andreybhai for your deep insight. Before 2-3 months I came into contact with an ex-BK Sister who has deep love for ShivBaba & Godly knowledge & wants to be celibate even after 6 months of married life. But her husband demands sex. This leads to dispute between them & their marital life is on way to divorce. My Brother Andreybhai, if you were that Sister, what should you do?

new_world at times your audacity is a breath-taking, and dare i say a refreshing thing on this forum. FYI (if you can be bothered to check it out for yourself), you may find that some legal systems view the unilateral with-holding of conjugal rights as ILLEGAL.

In other words, this can represent sufficient grounds for the 'injured party' to petition for a dissolution of the marriage (a divorce in case you did not know). If this is indeed the case a married partner does not need to 'demand' sex because it can be argued that loving consensual sexual relations is deemed by law to be part and parcel of a marriage. Please correct me if your research proves me wrong or there is some finer point that i am missing. If there is any real basis to this scenario i offer then maybe a legal bod can advise us whether an exception is made for the defence of "deep love for ShivBaba & Godly knowledge".

I do not know what things are like where you are based but typically one could imagine a scenario in which the man, feeling aggrieved, petitions for and is granted a divorce only to find himself having to 'pay' for the privilege. So when the BKWSU encourages its married female/male students to enter into a celibate way of life, it ought to advise that the legal situation is checked out, otherwise it may find itself accused of 'breaking-up marriages' and not to mention the incurring of various expenses.

As for your invitation to put oneself in the Sister's scenario, i think it is a fruitless exercise because no-one WILL EVER BE ABLE TO THINK AS THE Sister THINKS BECAUSE EACH SOUL IS UNIQUE. That seeming fair-mindedness is nothing but a cheap trick. Besides the individuality of each soul's drama and karmic situation, for all we know you may be making all this up to fit in with some riposte you already have in mind. So, why not ask Andrey what he or she would do in that scenario instead. it is a more direct and transparent approach.

P.S I am not proposing that anyone in a marriage desiring to be celibate should have their wishes disrespected in any way, however if this is insisted on unilaterally then there may be troubles ahead. In my experience the BKWSU does not offer any guidance or informed opinion about this situation. However new_world do you have anything to add that does not rely solely upon Gyani oblox? And i include in that any reply which asserts that the 'injured party' in this situation is a lustful so and so. Thank you

Om Shanti

P.S.
(I made it all up )

Before 2-3 months I came into contact with an ex-BK Sister who has deep love for ShivBaba & Godly knowledge & wants to be celibate even after 6 months of married life. But her husband demands sex. This leads to dispute between them & their marital life is on way to divorce. My Brother Andreybhai, if you were that Sister, what should you do?

Omshanti. Although the above question is not addressed to me, I have a relevant Murli quote, which is as follows:

"Quarrels takes place on purity only. If the husband makes you dirty (i.e. forces sex upon you) forcibly, then what can you do? O.k. keep remembering ShivBaba. Many cases take places, isn’t it? Many obstacles will be created." [Revised Sakar Murli dated 18/12/71 Pg-3, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK]

If this is indeed the case a married partner does not need to 'demand' sex because it can be argued that loving consensual sexual relations is deemed by law to be part and parcel of a marriage.

ShivBaba, in the Sakar Murlis spoken through Brahma Baba has quoted both the situations where either the non-BK husband of a BK wife demands sex or the non-BK wife of a BK husband demands sex.

"There will be atrocities on the powerless (ablaa) sometimes wife is also such that she does not hesitate to beat the husband with a stick. She will say, “What are you doing? What have you learnt and come? How does the whole world run? You have become opposite (to what were earlier)”. Those are demons named Akasur-Bakasur etc. also. These are demons names of some women also like Pootana, Soorpanhka (demoniac women) that are appropriate." [Revised Sakar Murli dated 10/8/79 Pg-2 published by the BKs, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK]

In case of BK wives of non-BK husbands, where the non-BK husband either has forcible sex with her or beats her on being denied sex ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) has given two kinds of directions.

1. When the BK wife is courageous enough to take a bold step:
"If the husband do not allow the wives to remain pure then certainly they will say that, “its better to clean utensils (to earn a livelihood) than to become impure. We shall mop the floor and clean the floor but we shall remain pure. A lot of courage is required in this. Father says that I can give asylum, but one should also be detached." [Revised Sakar Murli dated 6/8/71 Pg-3, published by the BKs, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK]

2. When the BK wife is not courageous enough to take a bold step and wishes to live with the husband who is demanding sex and beating her:
"Only when atrocities are committed does the pot of sins gets filled up. Father says, you will have to tolerate a little. You keep remembering your Father and inheritance. Even while you being beaten, you remember ShivBaba in your intellect." [Revised Sakar Murli dated 2/6/71 Pg-3, published by the BKs, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK]

And in case where the non-BK husband of a BK wife wishes to have sex, but does not beat her, ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) has also suggested tactics to those BK wives as follows:

"Triya charitra (drama of women) is famous. There’s a drama in which it has been shown that in order to save herself a women does performs so many dramas. You can play a lot of tricks. You can play a lot of tricks. You sit and worship. Tell (your husband) that Baba has caused me a divine vision that the sinful world is going to be destroyed. I also see the heaven. Father says that, “Be careful, if you drink the poison (of sex lust) then you will go to hell. If you become pure then you will become the masters of the pure world”. I have taken a vow (to remain pure). Explain him tactfully that, “if you want the poison (of sex lust) then you may marry again. I have to take the inheritance from Father”. [Revised Sakar Murli dated 21/9/73 Pg-2, published by the BKs, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK]

You have also spoken about the legal position in India with respect to such situations. I don't think divorce is granted here only on the basis of one-sided withdrawal of conjugal rights. However, it would be better to consult a lawyer and post the correct legal position here. As regards ShivBaba's advice to BK wives who may be willing to take legal action against their non-BK husbands who force sex upon them, it is as follows:

Tell him, “you are troubling me. I am going to write a letter to the Government that I want to become pure to purify Bharat, but he does not allow me to remain pure”. [Revised Sakar Murli dated 21/9/73 Pg-2, published by the BKs, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK]

I know some members may not have liked my quoting all the above Murli points on this subject, but I felt that this is a very important subject which affects the lives of many BK/PBK souls (and their relatives) across the world and it would be better to make ShivBaba's directions on the above subject known for all those who may not have access to Murlis but are interested to know. I hope you would excuse me.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Is it enough to say be pure without actually giving guidance as how to accomplish that. Just do not do it [sex] is not going to cut it for me.

I value purity [which is not just celibacy] but not at the price of mental health and well being. There are better people than me in terms of dharna 'love for god' service who also have intimate loving human relationships. This is not one glove fits all. Cardboard cut outs for people seem flat and uninspiring. A new world but at what cost?

What is oblox?

New world as taught by the BKs , feels to me like a poisonous mix of puritanism, chauvinism and fundamentalism. I am happy to be on a different wavelenght from theirs. Our ideals and means to get there, even, are different!

'Aajkal to dunia bahot gandee (dirty) hai. Baap apnee bachee ko bhee ganda (dirty) kar dete hai. Inko kaha hee jaata hai Veshyaalay' (8-2-75 P-2)

What's the deep hidden meaning of this Murli point? Which Father is making dirty to his which daughter? Is this Father of the body (Jismaani baap) or Alokik (so called/self declared) Father?

The meaning is the Father of the body, because he is looking at the body of his daughter. The spiritual Father is only a soul that does not have a body and he looks at the souls. He does not have a dirty vision.

If you mean to say that the soul of the body he enters can make them dirty then, this is Chariot of Shiva, he is reponsible and will put things right. Don't worry. As if you'll be giving asylum to poor women that are assaulted until ShivBaba comes in future to purify them. Meanwhile, maybe you'll purify them. The Supreme Soul comes in one only as purifier.

My dear Brother Andrey, you have misunderstood me. How can I blame our spiritual Father/Rambap (my dear than the dearest Baba Virendra Dev Dixit)?

In our Godly knowledge, there are three types of characters;

1) original,
2) title-holder &
3) duplicate.

This Murli point is not applicable for the original Rambap (Virendra Dev Dixit), who cannot have dirty vision. So this Murli point is directed towards duplicate/self-declared spiritual fathers who have corrupted Godly knowledge & made dirty to some Kumaris & Maatas.

I've full proof against such a duplicate Rambap/Vishnu/Purushottam Prajapita who have made dirty some Kumaris & Maatas. Is this not the shooting of Veshyaalay?

Andreybhai, the Murli point is not about Father of the body, but it's about that duplicate Rambaps.

I've full proof against such a duplicate Rambap/Vishnu/Purushottam Prajapita who have made dirty some Kumaris & Maatas. Is this not the shooting of Veshyaalay?.

new_world,

What are you going on about?
Can you define all "duplicate" character you are introducing?
Where this duplicate idea comes from?
What actually is your position in all this? We have asked you before.

There is something about the manner and tone of your posts that make me feel that you are not being completely above board. It reminds me of the attitude of a small boy pulling the wings or legs off flies.

You have some issue with the PBKs. Some past history. You may be an ex-PBK. Or a PBK-turned-BK-again that wants to discredit or belittle Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs, may be you feel let down by Virendra Dev Dixit ... so what is going on? Tell the rest of us openly please.

OK. This is something that obviously has to be addressed now. So let me spit it out for you.

Apparently there is some story, some documentation of Virendra Dev Dixit (... or if you wish some spirit working through Virendra Dev Dixit which be the Supreme Soul or Lekhraj Kirpalani ...) making love to numerous women. Quite a high number if we are to believe what we are told. This is supposed to relate to the erotic stories of Krishna and the Gopis that were written in the likes of Jaydeva's masterpiece Gita Govinda on the path of Bhakti.

So, sorry to pull the rug from under your feet new_world. I agree with you that, in all fairness, this issue should be documented and addressed. I support you in this. We know of the court cases which on one hand involve allegations of rape and on the other, as it is so commonly alleged in India, financial bridery. I believe the cases are almost over and have collapsed. This makes me wonder if there was consensual sex and then repentance and confusion later. It would also correlate with accusation that the BKWSUmake that the PBKs are "not pure".

This is as far as I can go. I have hinted at all this too but received no answer either.

Having said that, personally, I don't actually like your style and I don't entirely trust you. In the future, new_world, please "cut to the chase" as we say in English. If you want to make a point; just get on and make it. If you have an issue with the PBKs; please, just get it out in the open. Document it, see if others can elaborate. And move on.

Does that sound fair? For the record, in this bigger picture, the story does not bother me at all. It only opens up new doors of perception. And if it is true, I'd like to see how the likes of Andrey defends it. I am just sorry I missed the party.

This Murli point is not applicable for the original Rambap (Veerendra Dev Dixit), who cannot have dirty vision.

We had some earlier threads where it was pointed out that the soul of Virendra Dev Dixit becomes the highest and the lowest.