BKWSO lose legal action against BrahmaKumaris.Info

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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abrahma kumar

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"reverse domain name hijacking".

Post08 Oct 2007

that such words as "Brahma Kumaris" or "BKWSU" are trademarks owned the US branch of the BKWSO

Have they been granted these yet?
that we have no connection with the BKWSU

She is right, we do not pass ourselves off as a university! We only treat those that come into contact with the BKWSU as family.
that this site is for commercial gain by sending individuals to their "business competitors" such as the PBKs

Is that the "money making business of Gyan" oblox? If anyboby has made a penny from this site please let me know how. Thanks "business competitors"? Would that be the PBKs & Vishnu Party Godly competitors?
that we display numerous weblinks unrelated to the BKWSO's "products and services"

Is that cyber dj abekay they are referring to?
and are attempting to disrupte their charitable work.

Really? Nothing more be said.
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arjun

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Post09 Oct 2007

Omshanti. Sister Bansy had somewhere mentioned in this thread about contacting the newspaper which contacted this forum and some Members have suggested names for the possible new site in case BK Corporation becomes successful in closing this site. Here is what ShivBaba has said on the above two issues in one of the revised Sakar Murlis published by BKs:

"Tum kahengey yah sab Kalp pehley bhi hua tha. Aaj say 5 hazaar varsh pehley bhi hua tha. Ek akhbaar may roz daaltey hain – 100 varsh pehley kya hua, 100 varsh kee baat toh sahaj hai. Akhbaaron say jhat nikaal bataayengey. Vah hai ‘Times of India’ akhbaar. Tumhari akhbaar hai ‘Times of World’. Yah akshar badaa achcha hai. Roz likh saktey ho. Aaj say 5 hazaar varsh pehley kya hua tha. 5 hazaar varsh pehley jo hua tha vahee ab hua." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 10.09.07, pg 2)

"You would say that all this had happened Kalpa ago as well. It had happened 5 thousand years earlier too. In a newspaper they publish everyday – what happened 100 years ago. The matter of 100 years is easy. They will find out from the newspapers and tell immediately. That is ‘Times of India’ newspaper. Your newspaper is ‘Times of World’. This word is very nice. You can write everyday - What had happened 5000 years ago? Whatever happened 5 thousand years ago has happened now." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 10.09.07, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, translated by a PBK, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)

So, based on the Shrimat of ShivBaba contained in above Murli we could name the new site as 'timesofworld' or if that name is already registered by someone else, we could choose 'bktimesofworld'. A blog seems to have been already prepared by the name http://www.bktimesofworld.blogspot.com (which seems to be empty) and http://www.pbktimesofworld.blogspot.com (containing some PBK article and addresses). But I am sure that before any of the members of this forum acts to create a site with above name, the BK IT team would block these names for themselves to prevent ex-BKs or PBKs to use these names.

Although ShivBaba through Brahma Baba has suggested the above name for their magazine, I don't know why nobody among BKs opted for this name? Was it already registered in someone's name in India before 1969? This case seems to be the same like the postal stamp. While ShivBaba had directed BKs to get the postal stamp of Trimurti released, the BKs got the postal stamp containing just the portrait of Brahma Baba released by the Postal department of Govt. of India. Similarly, while ShivBaba had directed BKs to prepare a flag of Trimurti, they prepared a flag of point of light Shiv.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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admin

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Re: "reverse domain name hijacking".

Post12 Oct 2007

that such words as "Brahma Kumaris" or "BKWSU" are trademarks owned by the US branch of the BKWSO. Have they been granted these yet?

No, they have not. It is unlikely that they will be allowed the use the term University as it is a protected term. If forum members do not agree with such policies, they should voice their objection to the US Patent Office at the address previously given.

Dustin Edwards from Howrey LLP, the BKWSO's lawyers proposed a "settlement" ...



Details removed on the request of the attorney.

In this incident, we will honour the request as it was made "Without Prejudice"; a legal term for correspondence used in the course of negotiations indicating that a particular conversation or letter is not to be tendered as evidence in court. In theory, but not always in practise, "Without Prejudice" correpondence is used for a genuine attempt to settle a dispute between parties and may not be used as a façade to conceal facts or evidence from the court.




It is difficult to see what offer this [was] at all. It is also disappointing to see evidence that,
    a) the BKWSO really does not understand the ecumenical ethos behind this website, e.g. openness, objectivity and inclusivity versus the corporate control and exclusivity of an unaccountable elite
    b) [b]the BKWSO expects to rule in secrecy.
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abrahma kumar

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"reverse domain name hijacking".

Post13 Oct 2007

Thanks Admin, nothing's changed then? :lol:

Admin, that red text that you highlighted, why and what did it mean? Are they proposing that some deal be made between themselves and yourself?

A deal that we posters will remain forever ignorant of?

If so, is Admin suggestible to that?

regards
abek
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admin

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Re: "reverse domain name hijacking".

Post13 Oct 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:Are they proposing that some deal be made between themselves and yourself? A deal that we posters will remain forever ignorant of?

If so, is Admin suggestible to that?

The "deal" was precisely as written above. There is no deal.

That the so called "deal" has been immediately posted for all members to read and discuss is a reply to their request for confidentiality.
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abrahma kumar

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"reverse domain name hijacking"? No Deal

Post13 Oct 2007

Admin wrote:The "deal" was precisely as written above. There is no deal. That the so called "deal" has been immediately posted for all members to read and discuss is a reply to their request for confidentiality.

I should have known ... well i did actually. Incredible. We are behind you all the way.

There comes to mind a television game show, the first of which (launching the format) was produced by Dutch producer Endemol. Unlike the games contestants, I do rejoice at the outcome: "No Deal".

Thanks, abrahma.
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arjun

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Post13 Oct 2007

Dustin Edwards wrote:b) were unacceptable, they would be willing to consider the registration and use of a domain name by us containing their trademarked term but clearly not underwritten or authorised by the BKWSO, e.g. "Ihatebrahmakumaris.com" containing the same content.

Omshanti.

The above mentioned condition is really shocking for me. How can a university which claims to be 'spiritual' and highest among all the religions and based on the mother of all scriptures Gita even think about proposing such an inhuman condition for an agreement?????

How can a university that preaches love and compassion suggest a degraded name for a website which discusses all aspects of BKWSU including positive ones??? Do they think that all the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis that have either been uploaded on this site in full or as quotations is a hate material? Do they think that all the positive opinions expressed on this forum constitues a hate material? Their proposal itself shows the extent of hatred that they have in their minds for this site and its members.

They would only make their case weak by making such demoniac proposals. I hope some commonsense prevails upon them before they start digging their own graves with such proposals.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Post13 Oct 2007

arjun wrote:The above mentioned condition is really shocking for me. How can a university which claims to be 'spiritual' and highest among all the religions and based on the mother of all scriptures Gita even think about proposing such an inhuman condition for an agreement?????

How can a university that preaches love and compassion suggest a degraded name for a website which discusses all aspects of BKWSU including positive ones???

I actually wholeheartedly agree with you on this one, arjun. It is mind boggling to think that is all they can see or perceive of the effort that has gone into this site. Likewise, that is the best they can portray us to others.

Your own patient work aside, look at the Avyakt Vani Summaries from 1969 onwards ... where else is the world can you dip into such a complete taster and how much love and effort went into creating that?

My feeling is that this site is still a child, it has yet to grow and develop ... and already they want to kill it off and pretend it never existed.

What has truth to fear from the strongest criticism and the closest scrutiny?
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arjun

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Post13 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote:where else is the world can you dip into such a complete taster and how much love and effort went into creating that?

My feeling is that this site is still a child, it has yet to grow and develop ... and already they want to kill it off and pretend it never existed.

What has truth to fear from the strongest criticism and the closest scrutiny?

I think there is more information about BKs on this site than in any of the site of BKWSU including the BKs Aussie forum. None of the BK sites contains the actual words of ShivBaba let alone the complete Murlis or Avyakt Vanis.

In fact, they are betraying ShivBaba by calling the material in this site hate material. Mother Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) may overlook their mistakes when she comes in the body of Dadi Gulzar to meet them, but Father ShivBaba must be definitely observing their actions carefully and would definitely guide them to return to their senses.

Yes, I agree this site is still a child and is learning to make friends with present day BKs who wish to reform the organization while being a part of it.

As regards facing criticism, everyone should be ready for it. And this has been taught not just by ShivBaba but also by many philosophers including an Indian poet (most probably Kabir) who said 'nindak nedey raakhiye aangani kuti bandhaay' (which roughly means that one should keep a critic very close to oneself, even by making a hut/house for him in our courtyard) A critic enables us to know/realize our weaknesses and with this realization we can endeavour to overcome those shortcomings.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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tete

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The European Convention on Human Rights

Post13 Oct 2007

The European Convention on Human Rights ROME 4 November 1950 and its Five Protocols
    PARIS 20 March 1952, STRASBOURG 6 May 1963, STRASBOURG 6 May 1963, STRASBOURG, 16 September 1963, STRASBOURG 20 January 1966
ARTICLE 9

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
2. Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
ARTICLE 10
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. this right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or the rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.
ARTICLE 11
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
2. No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. this article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police or of the administration of the State.
ARTICLE 12
Men and women of marriageable age have the right to marry and to found a family, according to the national laws governing the exercise of this right.
........

UNITED NATIONS Universal Declaration of Human Rights NEW YORK 10 December 1948

Universal Declaration of Human Rights, G.A. res. 217A (III), U.N. Doc A/810 at 71 (1948).
On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and "to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories."

UNITED NATIONS Universal Declaration of Human Rights NEW YORK 10 December 1948

PREAMBLE

Universal Declaration of Human Rights, G.A. res. 217A (III), U.N. Doc A/810 at 71 (1948).
On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and "to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories."

UNITED NATIONS OFFICE OF PUBLIC INFORMATION

UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS PREAMBLE

Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,
Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has beep (sister in charge) proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,
Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,
Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,
Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,
Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,
Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,
Now, Therefore,

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Food for thought, may it bring benefit to all involved.
Om Shanti
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alladin

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USA exporting democracy

Post13 Oct 2007

European Convention. Signed by the USA as well? Or do they have an equivalent? Or is the US behind EC in aspects connected to democracy and freedom of cult and expression as they similarily are in environment issues (i.e. Kyoto protocol). Maybe the reason why the legal action was started in the USA? :roll: Just asking! :!:

The Forum is just a child but a mature precocious one bearing more children, especially recently. Must be a side effect of the legal action!
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tete

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Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights

Post13 Oct 2007

    [url=http://www.un.org/members/list.shtml]
    United States of America (24 October 1945)
    [/url]
Considering this link above, I presume they were members and signed on. The link below would state that all General Assembly members are still in support of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. One would also presume that anyone claiming "association" with the United Nation would also be in support of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

All human rights for all
FIFTIETH ANNIVERSARY OF THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS Adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948 Article 30.

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

.....For any comments, contributions or queries concerning the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) and this section of OHCHR’s website, please contact: (hredatabase@ohchr.org) or write to:

Methodology, Education and Training Unit/RRDB
Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR)
Palais des Nations
1211 Geneva 10
Switzerland

Om Shanti
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ex-l

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Re: The European Convention on Human Rights

Post14 Oct 2007

tete wrote:Men and women of marriageable age have the right to marry and to found a family, according to the national laws governing the exercise of this right.

What has that to do anything!?!

There is a serious point to all this ... but I think you are missing the target.

Any NGO, such as the BKWSU, has to accept the charter as part of the terms and conditions of advertising a United Nations association. The purpose of a UN association is that the recipient organization promote the charter and United Nations NOT that the United Nation is used to promote the organization.

One has to wonder how Destruction for 6 Billion and Heaven for 900,000 BKs only model fits in with United Nations charter. Likewise the desirable and inevitable Nuclear Holocaust. What are the BKs doing? Are they just mentally filtering out the bits they don't like ... and waiting until the government of the world is handed over to them like Baba says?

But how to prove it and who is going to practically challenge it!?! The BKs know how to make all the right noises ... how do individuals feel about all this? Do you go along with it? Are you going to do something about it?
    Or is it just entertainment for you?
If anyone does, make sure you are writing to the right office.
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abrahma kumar

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www.Brahmakumaris.info in dispute over name or works?

Post15 Oct 2007

I do not know if this question raises another topic altogether but anyone care to share some thoughts on the question: Is BrahmaKumaris.info in dispute with the BKWSO because of its name or because of OUR efforts? Thanks.

I ask it with the proverbial book opened at a proverbial blank page. Perhaps the question can enable us to script and enact more proactively the Forum Community's "life beyond the Domain Name Dispute".

Maybe we will discover our own readiness to "positively let go of the words "Brahma" & "Kumaris" which, though they are beacons may also be as millstones around our necks.

After all, all one does is type a certain sequence of letters into a browser and, gopi wallabh, ... the site's content appears.

Regards
abek
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arjun

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Post18 Oct 2007

How can a university that preaches love and compassion suggest a degraded name for a website which discusses all aspects of BKWSU including positive ones??? Do they think that all the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis that have either been uploaded on this site in full or as quotations is a hate material? Do they think that all the positive opinions expressed on this forum constitues a hate material? Their proposal itself shows the extent of hatred that they have in their minds for this site and its members.

Excerpts from the latest Avyakt Vani dated 15.10.07, page 3 narrated through the medium of Gulzar Dadiji on the subject matter of revelation of the Father:

"Kuch bhi ho jaaye lekin dua deni aur leni hai. Yah toh kar saktey hain ya nahee? ... Koi kuch bhi devey, bad-dua bhi milegi, krodh kee baatein bhi aayengi kyonki vaaydaa karengey na, toh Maya bhi sun rahee hai, ki yah vaaydaa karengey, vah bhi apnaa kaam toh karegi na. Mayajeet ban kar jaayengey fir nahee karegi, abhi toh mayajeet ban rahey hain na, toh vah apnaa kaam toh karegi. Lekin mujhey dua deni hai aur dua leni hai."

"Whatever may happen but one should give and take blessings. You can do this or not? ... Whatever anyone may give; one may get bad wishes also; matters of anger will also emerge, because you will make promises, will you not? So, Maya is also listening that they will make promises; she will also perform her task, will she not? When you become the conquerors of Maya, then she will not (perform her task); now you are becoming conquerors of Maya, aren't you? So, she will perform her task, but (you should be determined that) I have to give and take blessings."

Note: This is a draft translation by a PBK. The words within brackets have been added by the translator.

So, even if BKWSO considers the members of this forum to be forms of Maya, BapDada has directed that one should give and take blessings.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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