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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2007
by andrey
Dear Brother,

No, i mean you have been crying for the money you give. You give and you cry whilst giving is this real giving. Yes, it is a big ammount. I did not know but it is good You must have been feeding many others, but oh no, you had to take so that you can give. Yes, it is different but it is a lot. How did they manage persuade you or it has been for a long time so.

There is a saying, it is not crazy the one who eats the cake but the one who gives it. So what did you expect? Now, i give a lot, i'll take a big throne in the future. In the Murli it is said that it does not matter the ammount and what makes the account is the intention inside? whom did you give this and for what ... and how is your condition now, did you stabilize?

OK, i posted before seeing you would not be posting anymore. So, i won't expect answers but you just have an interesting story and you seem to be able to relate it with no ill feeling for others which shows great tact. I am very curious about the whole story and I am sure all others are.

PostPosted: 01 Jan 2007
by ex-l
Andrey wrote:No, I mean you have been crying for the money you give. You give and you cry whilst giving is this real giving.

No you did not Andrey, you said there much have been some "attraction to the money", meaning the BK theory of "attachment".

You were basically accusing Mr Green of being attached to the money he gave, that it was that attachment that was causing the sorrow and saying that it was his fault twice - which would be the BK position ... whilst they cash the cheques, of course.

You got up on your pulpit and spoke blindly. You made very vicious, personal accusations without even asking the full circumstances first.

You are not only incredible insensitive but made mad by all the Gyan that is in your head. You won't listen but you are typical of the type of BK that needs to see a psychotherapist, or at least that the BKs/PBKs need to INVENT their own psychotherpists to deal with. I think that what you have just done is incredible ...

PostPosted: 01 Jan 2007
by andrey
Yes, it is only the vices that give us sorrow.

PostPosted: 01 Jan 2007
by ex-l
Andrey wrote:Yes, it is only the vices that give us sorrow.

Then why does Baba say to us "not to give sorrow to others"? I suppose that has some other, convoluted meaning to you too?

PostPosted: 02 Jan 2007
by andrey
Which Baba? We should not give sorrow to others will be when we become viceless, otherwise we continue to give.

Now we become independent ... we don’t have to give to everyone ... this BK soul has acted like this only because someone has given him power – you are a senior?

But we should become such a viceless king that we don't tell others what to do, give titles to ourself or others, because deities know what to do, act on signals and undertake any important task by themselves.

PostPosted: 02 Jan 2007
by john
Andrey

I think you need to take stock of yourself. Maybe take some advice from Baba Virendra Dev Dixit.

I believe Shiva would never speak to an individual in the way you do, it is a mistake for you to speak in such a way. Gyan should be applied to ourselves and not used to take others to task on a personal level.

PostPosted: 21 Jan 2007
by arjun
Mr.Green wrote:1. In the Murlis it clearly states that no hair on the head of my children will ever be harmed, and the example of the kittens is used.

2. In the Murlis it also states that you have to follow not just Shrimat but also to say, "Ha ji at every step to your Seniors" ... and if you are given bad advice then BapDada will put it right. Also, if you are not happy with a direction given by senior then go to the next in command and it will be put right. These things I have seen with my own eyes do not happen. I was abused by a senior member of the BKs who gave me regular directions to pay money to him. This I reported to the Seniors many times, they did nothing and let this situation carry on for a year.

At no point did God intervene and put things right, I was a surrendered member living and serving in a centre and I used to weep and beg at nights in Baba's room to help and stop this happening ... nothing happened and I eventually became heavily in debt. I reached the point when I had to accept no one, or nothing, was going to help me and I had to leave ... with my faith broken ... try and understand what that means.

Then in the process of leaving, when I was really trying to make the Seniors aware of what really happens in the centres and how they have no real idea to control it or no desire to control it, they then attempted to defame me and my claims by saying they thought I was on drugs therefore not to be taken seriously ... This to me shows not only that the Murlis are not truth but also that the Seniors of the BKs don't have humane feelings and are not able to even know what honesty is. You are wrong and naive to suggest I was not engaged to him, my faith was complete and I had given my life to God. I would feel insulted if you doubt this.

Spiritual Brother,
Omshanti. This is what Avyakt BapDada has said in the latest Avyakt Vani dated 18th January, 2007 (page no.3) :

"Madhuban may jo bhi charge ke heads hain, charges toh bahut hain na, shantivan, gyaansarovar, Pandav Bhavan sab jagah hain. Toh jo charge vaaley hain, unkay naamon kee list BapDada ko dena, unsay hisaab lengey. Aur jo bhi teachers incharge hain, center incharge hain, unho ka ek din sangathan karengey, hisaab-kitaab toh poochengey na! Kyonki BapDada ke paas bahut dukh aur ashaanti ke aawaaz aatey hain. Pareshaani ke aawaaz aatey hain. Aap logon ke paas nahee sun-ney aatey, aapke bhi toh bhakta hongey na! Toh bhakton kee pukaar aap isht devon ko nahee aati? Teachers ko bhakton kee aawaaz sunaai deti hai? Achha."

"All those who are heads of all the charges (i.e. departments/responsibilities) in Madhuban; there are a lot of charges, isn’t it? Shantivan, Gyaan sarovar, Pandav Bhavan; there are charges at all these places. So give a list of names of the incharges to BapDada. (BapDada) would seek accounts from them. And a gathering of all the teachers in charge, the centers in charge would be organized one day. Accounts would be sought, isn’t it; because BapDada receives a lot of voices (or sounds) of sorrow and disturbance. He receives the voices of distress. You people are unable to listen; you too might be having your devotees (bhakta)! So don’t you Ishta Dev (deities) listen to the cries of the devotees? Don’t the teachers listen to voices of the devotees? Achha."

If the meeting of incharges of various departments of Madhuban, Mount Abu and center incharges that Avyakt BapDada proposes to organize some day is only to review the financial accounts of individual departments/centers, which is already being organized by the BK Chartered Accountants since last few decades, then why has BapDada mentioned that he receives a lot of voices of sorrow, disturbance and distress? If the problems being faced by the BKs/PBKs during the absence of Avyakt BapDada are being satisfactorily being solved by the BK Administration, then why did BapDada say that 'You people are unable to listen'? ... Don't you Ishta Dev (deities) listen to the cries of the devotees? Don't the teachers listen to the voices of the devotees?'?

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Note: The English translation has been done by a PBK. If someone has the official English translation released by the BKs, we could read the official version.

PostPosted: 22 Jan 2007
by bansy
This is what the offical BK version of what Avyakt BapDada has said in the latest Avyakt Vani dated 18th January, 2007 (page no.4) :

'All those who are heads, those in-charges - there are many in Shantivan, Gyaan sarovar and Pandav Bhavan, everywhere. Give a list of the names of those who are in-charge to BapDada. BapDada will take an account from them. And the teachers who are in-charge - whether of a centre or zone - we will have a gathering of them one day. Baba will ask for all the accounts, will He not ? This is because the sound of a lot of sorrow and peacelessness reaches BapDada. Sounds of distress come to BapDada. Can you people not hear it? There would be your devotees too, would there not? So can you, the specially beloved deities, not hear the call of the devotees ? Can the teachers hear the sound of the devotees? Achcha."

Note that in this message, BapDada as well as Baba are referred.

PostPosted: 24 Jan 2007
by Mr Green
Thieving toe rags :lol:

PostPosted: 24 Jan 2007
by sparkal
So, everyone including Bap Dada is shouting very loud for change, and the conservative big ship is struggling to turn around in the harbour.

I think Mr Green's initial post merits investigation on an internal level. I have only ever posted on this site so that others don't have to experience some of my past experiences and experience only the good things.

And, whatever process we are involved in, part of the desired outcome is that we feel natural compassion towards our fellow human souls.

PostPosted: 25 Jan 2007
by Mr Green
I did try and initiate an internal investigation but they are stuck in their ways. Everything done in secret. I met with Jayanti many times and just got lies. All they ever do is ring the wrong doer at abour 4.45 in the morning to give them what is known in BK circles as an 'earbashing'.

It's pathetic the way things are run there, it couldn't be more amateur. I don't see how anyone can still believe BapDada is God!!! So he's annoyed, big f**king deal ... surely if he was God he would do something about it rather than just a casual remark?

My advice is DO NOT GIVE MONEY TO THE BKs ... they have millions in the bank and they do not care about people like me ... they say things like they love you and you are their family ... it really is just pathetic ... BOYCOTT!!!! 8) 8)

PostPosted: 25 Jan 2007
by ex-l
sparkal wrote:I think Mr Green's initial post merits investigation on an internal level.

I agree. We should make it a trial case. May be BKRY will be willing to take this matter up legally. She offered to investigage abuses.

Individuals the whole world are watching and reading this now. It will not be so easy for the Kirpalani Klan to carry on this number in the future.

"Forewarned is four-armed" [sister in charge] in this situation.

PostPosted: 25 Jan 2007
by abrahma kumar
But what does the BKWSU do with the money? Since I am learning all of these things my mind can not seem to think of any probable motive. We do not see the Seniors swanning aroung in swanky automobiles or luxurious homes in exclusive areas. is not all the money used for service?

PostPosted: 26 Jan 2007
by tinydot
IMHO, there is no real bad motive to misuse the money. But there are few hidden personal motives to make one's life better in terms of power and position. The money is used for service, to paying bills/expenses, to support BKs living in the centers, to buying real estate and buildings, etc.

The whole point is, whatever the BKWSU has acquired, it belongs to no one. A multi-million asset that is floating in the world market in the name of this charity organization. This asset has a life of its own. This asset is getting bigger at the financial contributions and expense of most BKs who won't get any dividends out of it. Suffice to say, BKs are being fed with chapati, toli, thursday Bhog and Sunday breakfast. Very few BKs get real benefits out of the "$ value" they give for food and center accomodations because they contribute very less. But most BKs contribute financially more than the "$ value" of these food and accomodation. These financial contributions make up the current "BKWSU Assets".

To illustrate my point. What does it cost to travel to India and stay in a Hotel and buy your own food? Now, compare to staying in our lovely home Madhuban, and eat Brahma Bhogan everyday whilst staying there. It is indeed cheaper to stay in Madhuban, perhaps 1/3 of the cost. But if you don't go, you would have saved some $1500 in your bank account. It is your choice. Happiness costs these days.

If you were to ask me, I would have some idea how this financial aspect should have been done "more" squarely and fairly.

PostPosted: 26 Jan 2007
by ex-l
Abrahma Kumar wrote:But what does the BKWSU do with the money?

Giving money to the BKWSU and giving money to God are not one and the same thing. You can give all of your own money "to God" without giving it away. Its merely superstition, and the encouragement or exploitation of superstition, to keep passing into their hands, like "somehow" the karmic reward on my donation to the Kirpalani Klan is worth more than giving it eslewhere, say to feed starving kids or provide clean water and sewage systems.


I was a bit surprised to read about the first and business class air travel for the Seniors, that seemed a bit excessive. Questions have been raised about private bank accounts but my guess is that those are "private affairs" between the senior involved and her supporters. Purchasing property is surely the major expenditure with those big, impress the neighbors type service events coming second ... and they do like their central heating on warm!

They spent Million Pounds on a retreat center in Worthing, on the south coast of England that has not even been mentioned in any big service plan. Some say it is going to be a retirement home for the trusted and faithful. But one of the difficulties is knowing whose is what and what is not. It seems that many centers are mortgaged in the names of the center-in-charge or supporters and not actually the organization. There are large gray areas in the transfer of "donations" to payments for the above. Then there are questions about where the "big donations" from the Hindiwallas go when they come in.

The really surprising issue is that few if any BKs question the financial dealings of the organization to which they give their lives, never mind their wallets. The infantilization process, and probably fear of ostracization which is used in my opinion quite willfully by individuals, is almost entirely successful.

Few BKs would dare try and question Mother Janki. And none of those that tried would be able to get anywhere near her ... or the honey pot ... as Mr Green has illustrated painfully with his life. I am personally disgusted at the manner in which he was dismissed for over a year and then played off a junior BK accountant. Mr Green may well be the only BK to have done so over financial abuse ... and to date failed. But I hope that we can support him to continue.

As tinydot states, these assets have a life of their own, but they are managed by the human trustees. At least those that go into the charities accounts. As such they are subject to human intentions and frailties. Arjun reported from India cases where sisters-in-charge were named and shamed in public over their misuse and let us be honest, the organization's ambitions are hardly Gandhi-esque in nature.

What disgusts me even more is that in any other commensurate organization (e.g. a company, NGO etc of its size), if senior administrators had behaved in such ways (e.g. the financial abuses, the handling of the child sex abuses), they would have been severely reprimanded and expected to stand down. And yet within the BKWSU, these people are not just protected by the self-programming but upheld as divine and unquestionable.

The structure they have chosen to adopt is one whereby the financial investors have no say in how the money is spent and "unpaid" administrators, e.g. the Kirpalanis/Kripalanis do not carry the ulimate legal responsibilities. Those responsibilities are carried by the rolling trustees. In theory, the trustees could sack the administrators (... but who appoints the trustees?) but we know this is impossible.

So you have a situation whereby those that we know very well have "all power" over BKs and the BKWSU conveniently carry basically no responsibility; and the charity's trustees are basically their willing court flunkies. And the position with which to re-write the Godly message.

Its marvellous. And open to abuse in the manner Mr Green has illustrated to well, where the senior administrator of the charity, Dadi Janki, can be seen to offer compensation for abuse she and organization had been informed about for one year and then have it over turned by an unelected and unqualified* trustee. How wonderful for them. So who are the top dogs in the BKWSU, the Dadi Jankis or the accountants?

What is obvious to me is that this lot consider themselves entirely above any law. In my opinion, they are just running their own medieval fiefdom using religion as the metaphor, and business, with which to do so. On the basis of these cases, I cannot say that individual's spiritual benefit is at the heart of their campaign when it is so lacking in even Kali Yugi Shudra transparency and accountability.

It appears that they have just taken what Baba offers every one equally ... and let their old Mogul Rajput sanskars run wild. Sadly, old Mrs Kirpalani has to be seen at the forefront of this particular branch of the river of knowledge as it was she that chose to start interpreting The Knowledge her way. Those BKs that like power and influence will love and follow her. Her devotees as BapDada calls them.

It would be good to know of the detailed situation and structures in other BK Zones where these influences are not so strong. Also, it would be good to document just how the BKWSU handles their financial dealings from the local center upwards. There is no written manual or accountable system ... it seems to be entirely ad hoc and improvised.