Templewoodalister wrote:... now when I bump into him I am so self conscious that having what I'd call a normal happy chat is now just a place of emotional conflict! It's doing my head in! I am not about to corrupt the poor guy. Can BK men have just friendships with women?
Ha. Good posts actually, it made me smile at memories (silliness) of the old days. (
I was writing this as you replied).
I am sorry I never visited BK Australia ... can I ask what the age demographics are like now over there? Are their younger people involved, or have the centers all aged with the original adherents who joined in the 70s/80s?
You ask the interesting question, "Can BK men have just friendships with women?"
My half-joking answer would be, "Not if there is a BK Senior Sister or center-in-charge watching!". No way ...! In fact, not even if there are any other "pukka BKs" around (strict, disciplined, observant).
It's a funny thing but I guess for you, as it was for me, it was quite normal to have friends of the opposite sex, even to live with them, and not want to jump on top of them. Many of us relate better to members of the opposite sex better than our own sex. But none of that is taken into consideration with BK, not even for gays or lesbians.
As I say, I don't know BK Australia but I can give you the strict answer and my take on what is going on ... but can you tell us how deep into BK you are? Which courses have you have done and how committed are you, e.g. are you going to their morning classes, daily meditations etc? Or have you just done an introductory course and, say, a retreat.
Those answers would be that BKs really don't do "friends". They are polite and friendly but BK sets you with with a constant inner guard checking for any attraction (lust) or especially that great "evil" ... attachment. Even any 'like' for another human being would be seen as a distraction from the aim of total fixation on their god spirit.
Therefore ... although BKs definitely do feel natural attractions to others both inside and outside the cult ... they are supposed to transform all relationships into "service" relationships, i.e. the purpose of the relationship is not like, fun, honest sincere friendship ... but enculting the other individual. The BKs' form of "love bombing".
When I say the BKs' form of "love bombing", I refer to the term often used for other cults, however, I don't think it really fits with the BK ... the BKs tend to be more subtle and I'd relate it more to be like gentle child rearing of what they see as spiritual infants.
Even sincere thoughtful BKs have questioned this in the past and whether BKs use their personal attractiveness or sexuality as ways of drawing others in ... I would say they do ... but you are taught/learn to draw them in to deliver them to Baba. You, as the outsider, are drawn in but then the focus of your attention is increasing directed towards the teachings and the god spirit, hence, in the beginning, a certain amount of friendship might be tolerated but the further you go it is limited until the point where, if you do not get it, you will be pulled aside and given a little chit chat by a senior and if it goes further, individuals will be separated (even geographically) to cool off.
The deeper question in what you are asking, and I'd like to ask you one back, is "Can BKs have friends at all?".
To that I'd say no. Especially with non-BKs. So none of the normal sharing, exploring, questioning, challenging and equality of friendship can happen. BK life, if done "properly" is about one thing and one thing only ... "Service", by which they many recruiting and doing PR for the cult. The aim towards others is to "create other BKs", or even "to create servants or devotees". That is literally what the teachings say ... BKs are exhorted to go out and "create their servants".
Non-BKs are referred to as shudras (lowest caste), "ignorant", "vicious", "asleep" and full of Maya (illusion), a source of spiritual infection and danger. At best, or the best of them, might be considered as worshippers of BKs (that is to say, the teachings say that the deities, angels, myths and legends of over cultures and religions are literally memorials of the Brahma Kumaris themselves.
Those are my experience as a BK and of other BKs, both from observation and teaching ... what is your experience from the other side? What do you want and how do they come across from the outside?
There is a member of this forum call Jann who was draw into a long friendship and struggle with a male BK who, quite frankly, was going *way* beyond normal acceptable limits for a BK. Either he was conflicted himself or amorally using her for "forbidden" pleasures. If you can find and follow her posts they might help you. There was also another women from Australia who was in a relationship with a man who had been a BK ... fallen out ... fallen back in again and, again, struggling with both himself, his normal physical desires and mental needs, and the conflicts the BKs instil into individuals. From memory, I think he had other problems, e.g. alcohol, and was using both the BKs and her as convenient props but oscillating between them.
The reason I raise that is to flag up that if you want a normal friendship, and even he is attracted to it, he himself may still be caught or conflicted about it ... and 9 times out of 100 BK will win.
As for being a red blooded male BK ... you will read many honest and funny stories on these forums of how the total isolation chamber of BK (no sex, no touching, no relating to others) develops exaggerated reactions and cravings within individuals to the point where a simple shower (on one's own) becomes a dangerous erotic act. Needless to say BKs are suppose not to masturbate and even be watchful in their dreams of loveful/lustful desires. Literally!!! We were told that we were even meant to be controlling - and if necessary confessing - our dreams! And they still exhort young teenagers to do so en masse in India.
OK ... there's a few thoughts to be going on with. Perhaps the kind of questions you could ask your BK friend is, "is this a friendship or are you just using it to encult me into the BKWSU? Can you have friendships or are you just 'serving' me?" with all that applies.
Or, lastly, "do you want to leave the BKWSU, or do think you even will at a future date?".
Some exiting BKs use relationships as the gravity to pull themselves out of the orbit of the BKWSU ... but what we have seen in that scenario is that the BKs will fight to keep their man!
Best wishes ...