Karma

In my opinion, the BKWSU system is all about stopping individuals thinking. Janki often goes as far as to say this directly, "we do not have to think any more", and so does BapDada, "apply a fullstop to thoughts".

Were we not taught that Raja Yoga meditation was not about stopping to think but about having pure and elevated thoughts?

It seems obvious to me that "full stop to thoughts" means full stop to waste thoughts.

As far as Dadi Janki goes, I guess that she would be happy if we would stop asking questions that she cannot answer.

As far as the BK institution goes, I am sure they would be happy if no one would question their ethics.

BapDada often said that there is nothing wrong in noticing that someone does something wrong. It is very good to have an intellect that can discern good from bad. But he says that we should not keep thinking about it and spoil our mood with it. He also says not to spread it around and in a recent Murli he said that it was alright to speak about it "at the right place and at the right time". Now, what is the right time and place if no one wants to hear about it amongst the leaders? Maybe this forum is the right place...

I confirm, sorry if it's nothing new and sounds obvious, what Paul wrote. Definitely people who contribute more with money are more welcome. Our presence, vibe, stage or other types of service, subtle and physical, are not equally appreciated. Money counts, and facilities, then karma Yoga, lastly vibrations and intentions. So, Sudama is a nice story and example, appreciated by the children of the Lord of the Poor only.

One has to be involved for a while in it, in order to judge how spiritual really the organization is and its priorities!!

Dear br. ex-l,

Baba's box does not become Baba's because someone has put the name. actions and their consequences does not become one or another because someone has decided so. You may try to prove karma law man made, but the way Newton did not invent anything new we just aim discovering what is already there and works. Just because someone holds The Knowledge in his hand and twists it as per his will and uses it as per his wish does not mean they have created it. We should not fear anyone, for many gurus say like this that if you don't listen to me you will suffer a loss, but we can overthrow such superstitions and live free from any wrong ideas.

I also think as regards actions (karma) and money we can care only about our own actions and money of our possession.

You may try to prove karma law man made, but the way Newton did not invent anything new we just aim discovering what is already there and works.

I just wanted to clarify, I did not suggest Newton INVENTED the Law of Karma. I am suggesting that the New Age/Spiritualistic individuals, and the BKWSU, have MISAPPROPRIATED Newton's Law of Motion ... and later laws of thermodynamics (entropy) ... to suppose unproven or inexplainable theories about karma. Scientists names are used like the names of saint or gurus to make thing sound big and impressive. Its merely status by association.

What I continue to ask is an explanation of how and through what does "karma" work? My feeling is that life, existence and the universe is a lot more random that we can easily accept and that karma is mostly used as a mechanism of social control.

Newton does not talk about the Law of Karma. I meant he did not invent his own law - that is called as he has called it - he did not invent it. The same way karma law is not man made and exists and we discover it. Then how people may use it is secondary.
Basically, it is indeed a law of control that we cannot escape, the way we can escape man made laws. But as there can be speculations with the man-made laws - that you don't brake them, you abide by them, but use them for your own benefit, this way we now study the philosophy of karma to extract benefit for ourself. To speculate first you have to know the laws. People don't use the Law of Karma for social control, but they interpret it to suppress people. It is different. It is the same knowledge of the law that some twist to scare people and others use to feel free. Law is a law means fixed. Our not-knowing it does not make us not abide by it.

Basically it is indeed a law of control that we cannot escape, the way we can escape man made laws.

So it controls us then? If so then the Law of Karma also limits our abundance, our happiness and our spiritual income too.

I'd say that if one believes that this energy system is one that controls, then its a very limited belief system one has too and you are simply keeping yourself 'safe' within a particular comfort zone of being that may suit you at this time.

It is a point of view. You can even say we are limited by our body, we are limited by the gravity. To be free does not mean there are no limits, but to be free within limits. As we undertsand freedom in knowledge means freedom from vices. I agree limits and freedom comes in our mind first of all. If you think that a mind that runs here and there like wild is free then he would not get exhausted.

I understand, you mean Newton did not make work the Laws of Motion, he described them.

I am still no nearer to understanding the medium and mechanic of the so-called Laws of Karma ... strange for a religious followers that bases their life choices on faith invested in it.

To know the Law of Karma, we should study the Law of Karma. After we know it we can even link it to the Law of Motion, but we cannot study the Law of Karma by studying the Law of Motion. The Law of Karma is a spiritual law, so we should study it from a spiritual teacher. If you don't find answers it may mean you don't ask where it needs to be asked, like asking for shoes in pharmacy. Still, as you continue to imply, the Law of Karma is just a matter of faith.

The following two jokes came from December's edition of Purity. For me it is the simplied Law of Karma :

1. I am a nobody, nobody is perfect, and therefore I am perfect.

2. The statement below is true.

3. The statement above is false.

:P

The Law of Karma is a spiritual law, so we should study it from a spiritual teacher. If you don't find answers it may mean you don't ask where it needs to be asked

But, let us be honest, how deep is the BK teaching of karma? It could fit into one paragraph ...

From my previous post, it may seem that i think Law of Karma is just a matter of faith, whilst i would like to state just the opposite, that Law of Karma is a law irrespective the belief.

Often deep matters are simple.

From my previous post, it may seem that I think Law of Karma is just a matter of faith, whilst I would like to state just the opposite, that Law of Karma is a law irrespective the belief.

I suppose we could agree at the middle point that it is your faith that Karma is an absolute law but can you explain;

a) the mechanisms by which karma is delayed? What controls the time frame, e.g. how long, in which Karma comes back to either bite or reward the self?
b) the mechanism by which senior BKs (or Baba) are able to remove 50% of one's karma if one confesses to them or allow the self to avoid karma entirely if one follows their instructions?

Please understand, I am not arguing against a Law of Karma; I am attempting to understand how they work. I suppose as a PBK you would argue that the BKs are not burning off their sins by remembering BapDada ... or is there a further transference of karma possible via Lekhraj Kirpalani?

Would transference of Karma be something similar to the Christian redemption belief of Jesus Christ taking the cross on his shoulder to absolve the sins of humanity???

The more one has power like determination, commitment etc the faster he has the result.

It is not a matter of the BKs that cut away your sins, because they also are subject to sin. If you have a problem and tell about it to your friend then you become little light. Depending on your friend's ability to remain uninfluenced, he may be free from this but he may also get a little bit from what you have said. So it becomes lighter because it is shared. However the One who can only cut sins is the one who is never influenced by sin.