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bansy
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 84
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 Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:32 am Post subject: Father or Grandfather or G-G Grandfather |
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1) Why is God called the "great-great-grandfather " ? (with two "greats") in murlis ? Using "Father" is fine and "BapDada" is already a little confusing but that is just an Hindi/Sindh translation of how you want to use Brother or Father. But great-great-grandfather really is perplexing. 
2) What does "mouth born" and "thought born" brahmins really mean in practice ? A brahmin is a brahmin. Full stop. And sorry, no mouth-born double foreigners it seems. so we're way down the ladder.
Is this word "brahmin" just another way to say "I am of superior caste", to lure bhagats towards BK ? In which case, the arrogance (one of the vices identified by BKs) and hence body consciousness is therefore already implicit in their title for themselves ? |
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John
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Bansy
I think you should also put this to the PBKs in their section |
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bansy
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: |
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John, Good idea. PBKs are not allowed to start a new topic so ......here goes.
However, it will also be nice for XBKs and BKs to give their past/current interpretation in this section I have no idea to the answer of these Qs, it just came out of the blue whilst on the train...just shows how ingrained the gyan can be  ....though there was an well dressed elderly gentlemen snoring away opposite me that may have triggered these thoughts  |
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howiemac
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Father or Grandfather or G-G Grandfather |
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| bansy wrote: | 1) Why is God called the "great-great-grandfather " ? (with two "greats") in murlis ?
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This is a Hindu thing - they sometimes refer to God as great-great-grandfather, and by this they mean ancient ancestor or creator of the world. BB refines this into Shiva being the incognito seed, then Adi Dev and Adi Devi are the two shoots that emerge from the seed, the world mother and father, which grows into the trunk of Brahmins, and finally into the world family tree (see avyakt murli 25/12/85). So in BK terms great-great grandfather means seed of the tree.
| Quote: | 2) What does "mouth born" and "thought born" brahmins really mean in practice?
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As I am sure you know, thought born means (in BK terms) reborn through the catalyst of avyakt Brahma, while mouth born means reborn through the catalyst of corporeal Brahma. But why does BB distinguish?
Well, all souls are equal in Gods eyes, if not in the eyes of many BKs.... But if you want to create a Brahmin heirarchy in your own mind, BB often suggests in the avyakt murlis that thought born Brahmins, and particularly double foreigners, are more elevated than mouth born Brahmins, as they demonstrated that they recognise Brahma on the subtle level, rather than the gross... Of course he also suggests to the 'mouth born' that they are the more elevated, the 'special ones' who spent time with corporeal Brahma - it is the 'each is more elevated than the others' zen-like thing - all pep talks and no substance. All souls are equal.
| Quote: | | Is this word "brahmin" just another way to say "I am of superior caste", to lure bhagats towards BK ? In which case, the arrogance (one of the vices identified by BKs) and hence body consciousness is therefore already implicit in their title for themselves ? |
i think so  |
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bansy
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Thanks howiemac.
1) I can grasp the great-great-grandfather being a language issue.
2) It could be interesting to also see what PBKs make of mouth-born/thought-born brahmins, and what category they belong if God Shiva is entering their chariot (and playing the role of Shankar and not Brahma), post 1969. Why didn't they call themselves "PSKs", metaphorically say? (I'm postulating here as I don't know enough on PBKs, but it seems they won't get much recognition without having the "BK" in their title and they also prefer to be called the "Advance Party" as that also sounds good).
| Quote: | | all pep talks and no substance. All souls are equal. |
I agree. Although in murlis, some souls are more equal than others.... term used is "numberwise". |
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howiemac
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| bansy wrote: | | t could be interesting to also see what PBKs make of mouth-born/thought-born brahmins |
As i understand it they see themselves as 'twice-born' brahmins - ie those who have left the body while a BK and become PBK in their next birth...
Hopefully they will speak for themselves..
| Quote: | | some souls are more equal than others.... term used is "numberwise". |
don't believe everything you read in the murlis  BB uses all kinds of tricks to cajole the troops... |
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ex-london
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Father or Grandfather or G-G Grandfather |
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| bansy wrote: | | 1) Why is God called the "great-great-grandfather " ? (with two "greats") in murlis ? |
One would have to see the original Hindi but could this be a literal translation of " Shri Shri ". Shri is a term of elevation in Hindu society/worship, usually translated as " Great ", something akin to being a " Sir " in British society. So you have Shri Gurus and, to go one better, Shri Shri Gurus - and then it get really competitive and you can have Shri Shri Shri Gurus.
Just who decides, or whether there is a committee doling these titles out, I do not know. I guess it is just silly human beingness. My Guru is bigger than yours ...
2) Is this word "brahmin" just another way to say "I am of superior caste", to lure bhagats towards BK ? In which case, the arrogance (one of the vices identified by BKs) and hence body consciousness is therefore already implicit in their title for themselves ?[/quote]
It must be a great lure and how does orthodox Hindu society adopt to B.K. claims. To them considering one's self to be a Brahmin just because you had done a 7 day course would be ridiculous as saying you were an Orthodox Jew just because you had been on a weekend seminar.
But Buddhism made great strides amongst the Indian lower classes and untouchable by freeing them from class distinction. In many schools of Buddhism there were no classes, you just left untouchability and became a Buddhist.
The power that imaginary collective nouns hold over our lives.
Ex-L |
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ex-london
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Father or Grandfather or G-G Grandfather |
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Sorry, I messed up the quotations there and this bit ;
| bansy wrote: | | 2) Is this word "brahmin" just another way to say "I am of superior caste", to lure bhagats towards BK ? In which case, the arrogance (one of the vices identified by BKs) and hence body consciousness is therefore already implicit in their title for themselves ? |
Should have been credited to Bansy.
Also to say that Shri is sometimes written as Sri, from the Sanskrit, but means the same.
Ex-L |
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