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 Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:21 am Post subject: PBK ARCHIVE - sakar vs avyakta |
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Wahl wrote:
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Are there any BKs or XBKs that would like to comment on the following please?
When Brahma Baba related the murli, it was different to Dadi Gulzars experience. Brahma Baba didn't 'vacate' his body in order for God to take it over did he, in other words, he was aware of his words as they were spoken? How do the sakar and the avyakt murlis differ in terms of how the were practically recieved?
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with love and respect
wahl--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Wahl,
Omshanti. Although you have posed the above questions to BKs or XBKs, I would like to give a short reply about the views of PBKs in this regard. Since PBKs cannot post in the XBKs section, I am expressing my views as a new topic in the PBKs section. Although I know your disliking for the PBKs, but it would be nice if you could go through the contents of this post.
You have correctly pointed out that when incorporeal father Shiva used to enter into Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) then the soul of Brahma also used to listen to the words of Shiva. But in case of Gulzar Dadi (in whom BKs claim that both Shiva and Brahma enter) her soul goes into a state of unconsciousness. It cannot listen to the words of the soul which is speaking through her body. She has to later on read the Avyakta Vani which has been narrated through her body to know its contents.
Moreover, there are a lot of physical changes in the body of Gulzar Dadi when another soul enters into her body to narrate AV. It might be noticed that the number of AVs narrated per year since 1969 has kept on decreasing with every passing year, because of the adverse physical effect that is caused on the body of Gulzar Dadi due to the entry of another soul (only the soul of Brahma Baba with its subtle body according to the PBKs) the But in case of Brahma Baba there was no physical change or any adverse effect. In fact, in spite of his advanced age, Brahma Baba used to be more active than the chidren.
Further, sakar murlis contain the knowledge of dharana as well as the beginning, middle and end of the world drama cycle, world tree etc. But the AVs contain only points related to dharana (inculcation of virtues) which are almost repeated every year.
With regards,
ON Godly service,
Arjuna |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Wahl,
Omshanti. You had asked about the difference in the experience of entry of Shivbaba into Brahma Baba and the so-called entry of Shivbaba into Gulzar Dadi.
In this connection, I have luckily come across a latest revised sakar murli dated 18.8.05, page 1 (narrated by Shivbaba through Brahma Baba) which says:
"Baba ko maaloom thodey hee padta hai. Shivbaba kee aatma kaisey aati jaati hai. Aisey bhi nahi, sadaiv ismay rahti hai."
"Baba does not know how the soul of Shivbaba comes and goes. It is also not true that it (Soul of Shivbaba) remains in this body always."
Baba is telling that “Baba does not know how the soul of Shivbaba comes and goes.” When Bapdada enters into Gulzar Dadi (along with a jerk of the body and some physical changes) then children immediately come to know about his entering into her body, whereas when Supreme Soul Shiv (who neither has a physical nor a subtle body) entered into Brahma Baba then neither he nor the children used to come to know about the entry of Shiv into him. So, keeping in view the physical changes that appear in the body of Gulzar Dadiji, is it Father Shiva who is entering into the body of Gulzar Dadi or is it only the subtle bodied Brahma who is entering into her?
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjuna |
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wahl
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 187
Location: Essex, England
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Arjuna
| Quote: | You have correctly pointed out that when incorporeal father Shiva used to enter into Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) then the soul of Brahma also used to listen to the words of Shiva. But in case of Gulzar Dadi (in whom BKs claim that both Shiva and Brahma enter) her soul goes into a state of unconsciousness. It cannot listen to the words of the soul which is speaking through her body. She has to later on read the Avyakta Vani which has been narrated through her body to know its contents.
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Yes, this is my view too.
My recent thoughts have been that, any verbal description of the experience of Divinity ('God'), is a very inadequate way of describing the experience itself (yoga) which is way beyond words or even thoughts.
The words are just the signposts, yet, we do still have the habit analysing the very gross 'who?', 'where?' and 'when?' of everything. This just prevents us from perceiving the incredibly subtle power of the Divine.
Personally I am finding that I need to think less and 'feel' more in order to keep in touch with Love.
wahl
om shanti |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Wahl,
Omshanti. Thanks for the reply. I respect your feelings and wish that you get more and more closer to God. But I hope you would keep sharing your divine experiences with us.
With regards,
ON Godly service,
Arjuna |
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wahl
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 187
Location: Essex, England
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:18 am Post subject: |
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I will try 
om shanti |
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