XBK Chat (unofficial archive)

bansy · Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 84

Same Qs as posted in BK/XBK section reposted here. Can any PBKs reply to these :

1) Why is God called the "great-great-grandfather " ? (with two "greats") in murlis ? Using "Father" is fine and "BapDada" is already a little confusing but that is just an Hindi/Sindh translation of how you want to use Brother or Father. But great-great-grandfather really is perplexing.

2) What does "mouth born" and "thought born" brahmins really mean in practice ? A brahmin is a brahmin. Full stop. And sorry, no mouth-born double foreigners it seems. so we're way down the ladder.
Is this word "brahmin" just another way to say "I am of superior caste", to lure bhagats towards BK ? In which case, the arrogance (one of the vices identified by BKs) and hence body consciousness is therefore already implicit in their title for themselves ?

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Omshanti.
First of all I would like to thank all the members and the administrator for allowing the PBKs to return to this esteemed forum. I hope all of us will continue to have a fruitful discussion on wide ranging spiritual topics.

Bansy wrote:
1) Why is God called the "great-great-grandfather " ? (with two "greats") in murlis ? Using "Father" is fine and "BapDada" is already a little confusing but that is just an Hindi/Sindh translation of how you want to use Brother or Father. But great-great-grandfather really is perplexing.
-------- First of all I would like to say that it is not God who is called Great-great Grandfather in the murlis. It is Prajapita Brahma who is called the Great-Great-Grandfather. Now who is the real Prajapita Brahma is a matter of difference of opinion between the BKs and PBKs. BKs consider Dada Lekhraj to be Prajapita Brahma and hence the Great-Great-Grandfather. But as per PBKs, Dada Lekhraj is not the actual Prajapita Brahma but only plays the role of Mother Brahma (Badee Maa or elder mother). Even the murlis speak about Brahma being the Jagdamba.

As per the PBKs the meaning of Great-Great-Grandfather is very deep and is part of the advance course pertaining to the picture of world tree.
In short I would like to hint that unlike the soul of Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) who takes 84 births only in the deity religion, the soul of Prajapita (the present chariot of Shiv) takes one birth in every religion. I will try to give more information on this topic in my later posts.

2) What does "mouth born" and "thought born" brahmins really mean in practice ? A brahmin is a brahmin. Full stop. And sorry, no mouth-born double foreigners it seems. so we're way down the ladder.
Is this word "brahmin" just another way to say "I am of superior caste", to lure bhagats towards BK ? In which case, the arrogance (one of the vices identified by BKs) and hence body consciousness is therefore already implicit in their title for themselves ?

-----Mouth born (mukhvnashavali) means those souls who become Brahmins by listening to the knowledge that emerge from the mouth of Prajapita Brahma. Brahmin word is not a sign of arrogance, but a sign of purity. In fact a complete Brahmin is the one who is completely soul conscious. There is no body conscious vision and hence a Brahmin should not view other souls as belonging to a particular religion, caste, country, language or nation. A brahmin must view everyone as a soul only. So the question of ego of belonging to a superior caste does not arise at all. If a soul fulfils such qualifications of a Brahmin as described in murlis and avyakta vanis, then he is no doubt superior to other body conscious souls. But he should also be egoless at the same time. Even in the Indian society the Brahmins are supposed to lead a pure, austere and simple life, concentrating their energy and resources on obtaining and disseminating knowledge. But in the Iron Age the many Brahmins of the outside world leave their assigned task and indulge in activities not commensurate with their status. Similarly, when the spiritual Brahmins of the confluence age (BKs) also reach the degraded phase of their effort-making life (purusharthi jeevan), they throw all cautions to the winds and get diverted from Shrimat. That is why Shivbaba has to change his role, place and bodily medium to reform us Brahmin children.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

bansy · Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 84

Welcome back.

administrator · Site Admin Joined: 15 Nov 2003 Posts: 48

Whenever a member opens a topic here, it is understood that it is on a PBK or PBK related issue. As such, there is no need to put the words "(PBK issue)" at the end of your topic heading. We have therefore removed those words from this topic heading.

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arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Omshanti.

Bansy wrote:

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Omshanti. I have come across a murli dated 5.9.05, pg.2 published by the BKs in which baba has explained that founders of other religions also come here (i.e. in the yagya) definitely. He also says that divine visions have been caused to children about – how Abraham, Christ, etc. come. He goes on to say that these religious fathers will come in the end when this knowledge becomes very famous. Baba has also said that in that murli that Prajapita is our great-great-grandfather. So, it clearly proves that it is not Shivbaba but Prajapita Brahma who is the Great-Great-Grandfather.

Since quoting murlis is not encouraged, I have expressed Baba's versions in my own words. If anyone wishes they can check up with the BKs.

With regards,
ON Godly service,
Arjun

bansy · Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 84

Arjun,
Thank you for a detailed spiritual description of the terminology used. The role of Brahma is probably the most poignant and yet fundamental to the entire knowledge (BK or PBK) for Brahmins. Maybe even more so than ShivBaba for whom we all (of humanity) generally have a clear understanding and experience. You're not entirely "a Brahmin" if you do not clearly understand who/where you get your namesake from.

arjun · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 29

Respected sister Bansy,
Omshanti. Thanks for your patience. Kindly go through my further thoughts on the subject of Prajapita being the Great-Great-Grandfather of mankind.
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While the foundation of the deity religion is laid by the incorporeal Supreme Father Supreme Soul, the foundation for other religions is laid by bodily religious fathers. Since the Supreme Father Shiv is the creator of this world, He takes the support of the highest among the human beings, i.e. Prajapita (world father) to lay the foundation of the deity religion. Remaining religious fathers take the support of number wise human beings as per their respective powers.

After establishing the religions, each religious father and the base-like soul of every religion keeps taking rebirth in their own religion, and with the beginning of the Confluence Age itself the base-like soul of every religion (like Jesus, Siddhartha etc.) obtains knowledge from the Supreme Father Shiv and becomes a Brahmin (B.K.); but the religious fathers of those religions obtain knowledge from these base-like souls at the end of the Confluence Age and recognize them and obtain power. And in the Confluence Age, when there are the base-like souls of every religion, then certainly there will be seed-like souls also, who give birth to them, because the seeds are more powerful than their roots. In this Confluence Age those Brahmin souls who consider the basic knowledge given through Dada Lekhraj (the holder of just the title of Brahma) as the greatest and inculcate it are the base-like souls (Adharmoort atmayen) and those, who initially understand and inculcate the advance knowledge given through Prajapita Brahma along with the basic knowledge, are the seed-like souls (Beejroop atmayen). These seed like souls become the physical fathers of the base-like souls in the Copper and Iron Ages at the time of establishment of various religions.

For e.g. when Buddhism is to be established in the Copper Age, the soul (Prince Siddharth) in whose body the soul of Buddha enters from the soul world is the base-like soul of that religion, who had been a BK in the confluence age and the physical father of Prince Siddharth, i.e. King Shuddhodhan is the seed-like soul of that religion who had been a PBK in the confluence age. Prince Siddharth accepts Buddhism in the same birth but his father King Shuddhodhan does not embrace Buddhism in that birth, but becomes a Buddhist in the next birth. This theory is applicable in case of all the religions. It means that three souls play important roles in the establishment of each religion. One is the soul of religious father coming from the soul world, the second is the base-like soul of that religion (BK of CA) in whose body it enters and the seed-like soul of that religion (PBK of CA) who gives physical birth to the base-like soul of that religion. The seed-like soul of that religion is its father, the base-like soul of that religion is its mother.

Now since Prajapita, who is the seed of the humanity and who is the father of seed-like souls of all the religions becomes the medium of Shiv in the Confluence Age in the beginning and in the end and all the seed-like souls and base-like souls obtain the Godly knowledge through him and therefore he is the great-great-grandfather of all the religions.

The religious father, base-like soul, seed-like soul of each religion and their followers have similar sanskars. With the establishment of various religions one by one from Copper Age, the sanskars of that religion in the base-like souls and seed-like souls of these religions emerge in them and they forget the qualities of deity religion and even oppose the souls of deity relgion. It is only the soul of Prajapita who fights for truth, makes the maximum sacrifices for safeguarding the deity religion. But that does not mean that the soul of Prajapita does not take birth in other religions. Although it also takes a birth in every major religion it takes birth to establish righteous kingdom in that religion, to establish righteous rules and regulations in that religion. There is some percentage of righteousness in every religion, isn’t it? So, the soul of Prajapita takes birth in every religion to establish that righteousness, to give the inheritance of kingship to the souls of that religion. But with the passage of time every religion passes through the sato (pure), rajo (partially impure) and tamo (completely impure) stage and lose the righteousness that the soul of Prajapita had established.
In this way Prajapita happens to be the Great-Great-Grandfather of the mankind.
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I will try to write about the role of Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) in my further posts.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun